The Egotistical Priest
An irreverent and opinionated discussion of the many classes
in the World of Warcraft gaming universe.
Deeds of Heroism
by Vonya
In an earlier post, I mentioned the primary “games” for priests to play.
* PVP
* Soloing
* Group Questing
* Instancing
* Raiding
* Roleplaying
I’m going to amend that now to include Heroic Instancing, and I’ll tell you why.
They’re HARD.
I don’t just mean that you’ve gotta have better gear, farming out those non-heroics till you get all your gear drops. I don’t mean that you need a full group of well-geared people. I don’t even mean that you’ve got to heal more.
I mean they’re HARD. I mean all of the above, to the twentieth power. They can very realistically be referred to ask “Five Man Raids”.
Heroic mode instances are wipe-fests, even for good healers. They incorporate my least favorite stat in the game - luck - and then mock you as you try again and again to kill a single trash mob.
That does not mean that they’re impossible, or that constant wipes need to be the norm. I aim to make MY Heroic runs get to the point where wiping is a rarity, insomuch as I can.
All that was very nice and theatrical, but anyone who actually cares is going to want some specifics.
1) You HAVE to have a full group.
I came from a school that three-manned Azeroth instances, and that frequently four-manned BC instances with whatever fourth happened to be on at the time. That will not fly in Heroics. WILL NOT. I have done heroics with people geared for Kara who are more skilled than any other players I’ve ever met, and we still wiped. Repeatedly. Part of that is my fault, and that’s why I’m posting this now. More on that later, but for now, you should never ever step foot in a heroic without a full group. The trash mobs have been buffed so that they are often more difficult than the bosses. TRASH MOBS.
Trust me. Full group of solid players. No PuGs for this, no ma’am. (I have been informed that PuGging heroics is not quite as bad as regular PuGging. It is an interesting theory that anyone who has gone through the process to acquire a heroic key may spend more time outside of his sphincter than in…this is not a theory which I myself wish to test.)
2) CC
Some of you may be snickering behind your hands right now. “Haha, the high and mighty Ego has fallen, after her recent posts about not needing CC.” - For the most part, CC is not needed for non-Heroics. And Heroics can be done without them, but I’m here to preach the benefits of sheeping and freezing and banishing to high heaven. In a heroic, EVERY. SINGLE. trashmob is a boss. Even removing a single mob from the fight makes it exponentially easier.
That doesn’t mean I want you to go crazy. If each pull takes five minutes to set up, then you’re taking it too far. But I will tell you know that I have seen the light when it comes to CC in Heroics. Praise the Light.
3) Healing
Healing is flat out harder. I have been in fights where I spend every single second, from the time the mob is engaged until it’s dead on the floor spamming Greater Heal. I’m working on a better strategy than that, but when I tell you that they’re hitting for 4-5k on a well-geared tank PER HIT, I hope you’ll understand what that means. That means that you don’t have any wiggle room. The long cast time of Greater Heal means that if you wait for your tank to take damage, he will be DEAD before your heal can land.
No more clever use of healing tactics for the rest of the group. Mr. Rogue, you’re on your own, I can’t take my eyes off my tank for even a second, or he’s dead. I don’t even have time to toss an HoT on my tank, because the Global Cool Down will KILL him.
Now, that’s not every single fight, but it’s certainly nothing I’m used to. And guess what, CC helped - being able to stun that mob made the healing doable. And having the paladin back up and toss heals was probably all that kept us alive.
As I said, I’m working on a better strategy for these fights. For now, be prepared for that damage, because it’s SHOCKINGLY fast.
4) Players
Don’t engage a Heroic with people you don’t love. You will wipe. You will. It happens. If you’re running with strangers, they will blame the priest. And sometimes it’s the priest’s fault, and sometimes it’s not. Hell, I blame MYSELF for most of the wipes, even when there’s not a damn thing I could do about it.
If you can find a group that’ll meet a wipe with a smile and a chuckle, that understands and is willing to work with you, and that doesn’t blame you…that’s the only way to make Heroics work on an emotional level. It’s so easy to toss the blame around, to get frustrated and just give up…cherish the people you play with. I really mean that.
5) Gear
You probably don’t have gear that’s good enough to do Heroics. That’s not your fault - the game is designed so that you have to do Heroics to get the gear you need. Ironic, ain’t it?
However, you should be able to gear to a certain extent through regular instancing and some quest rewards. KNOW YOUR GEAR. Make a wishlist. Update it frequently. Check instance drops, reputation rewards, Heroic instance drops, Heroic badge rewards, quest rewards. Are you a tailor? You’ve got it easy (partially) The best healing gear in the game is tailored, and it’s BoP. A lot of people are saying that not being a tailor is stupid if you’re a healer. I’m not in that camp, but I’ll definitely say that they’ve got a reason to push that opinion. The gear you can get is the best for a very, very long time. I’ll do another post on that particular topic some other time, but if you ARE a tailor, USE that. Get the gear that only you can get.
You want some guidelines? Consider the “easier” Heroic Mode instances to be the same as Pre-Curator Karazhan (yes, I mean that). The harder ones, we’ll call Post-Curator Karazhan. These are generous stats, in my opinion. The stamina, however, is CRUCIAL. You MUST have at least 6k health, or you have a good chance of being one-shotted by almost anything. The charge from Attumen will completely obliterate you, even if it doesn’t crit.
Pre-Curator
1,200 +healing
100 Mana Regeneration while Casting
6,000 Health - Unbuffed
7,000 Mana - Unbuffed
Post-Curator
1,500 +healing
150 Mana Regeneration while Casting
7,000 Health - Unbuffed
8,500 Mana - Unbuffed
And before you scamper off to my Armory to see where I am, let me tell you that I’m behind pre-curator in some stats, and nearly to post-curator in others. I’m working on it. And yes, my bracers are so bad I might as well just wrap some Fruit by the Foot around my wrists. At least then I’d have a tasty snack between fights.
I have a wish list, and I’m working diligently to upgrade as much gear as possible before my first Kara run on Saturday. Do you have a wish list yet? Make one. Or two, or three. And when someone says “Hey, can you heal Mech for me?” you can say “Oh, yes! I need the Sha’atar rep, and if the shoulders drop from the chest, I will personally spring for drinks at the World’s End Tavern afterwards!”
Relative Difficulty of Heroics
Not all heroics are created equal. And just because the non-heroic version of an instance is low doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easier. I don’t have a list of comparative difficulty of various heroics, but just because it was easy as a normal run doesn’t mean it’s easier as a heroic. Trust me.
Also, just as a note, you get a Heroic Badge for each boss you kill. Heroic Badges are turned in for Phat Lewt. Thus, you want as many as possible. Many heroics only have three bosses, thus three badges.
Heroic Mechanar has FIVE possible badges. The first three are actually pretty easy to get. They come from the two gatekeepers and the scraggly fellow in the robot suit. And the robot fight is SO much more fun in Heroic mode.
BUT. Even though the first three badges are easysauce…the last two are a HUGE pain. And the fire elemental boss is not worth the time or effort, I don’t think she even has any new loot on heroic.
So even though Mechanar is a level 70 instance, it’s known as a “quick three badger” by many.
Summary
There is, no doubt, a great deal more that can and will be said about Heroic Mode Instances. For now, let me close with a bit of advice. Don’t underestimate them, and treat them with the same care that you’d use if you were going on a Kara run.
July 23rd, 2007
Amen.
I was getting bored with a lot of the 70 instances, but after my first heroic… the thrill came back.
If everything you planned for doesn’t happen exactly when it’s supposed too (I.E. shackle breaks, Frost Trap resisted, sheep remembers they’re a real boy) you wipe.
And yea, even at the gear Cay’s at, I’m still finding it tough for wiggle room in a Heroic instance. It’s a non-stop PoM, Gheal, Gheal, PoM, etc, etc, with little to no MP5 pwnage.
But in the end… they bring back a lot of the fun in those instances. And seeing something you killed at 60 make you into a fine red mist at 70… can cause me to giggle for at least 20 mins… ;P
~Cayleigh
July 23rd, 2007
Cayleigh - oman, you ain’t kiddin.
It’s like a whole new ballgame. The first time we wiped in a heroic, my eyebrows were lost in my hairline, they were raised so high. Definitely knocked me off my high horse. *laughs*
So much fun though. And fear-kiting has an all new delicious and terrifying spice to it.
….and, for that matter, I now kiss my Fear Ward spell and thank it for all its done for me every night before I go to bed. THAT is one spell that needs to be given to all priests, not just drae and dwarves.
And I prefer my experiences the other way around - like when I went back to Hellfire Peninsula and tapped a few Fel Reavers on the shoulder. THAT was a very satisfying night. I’d have done it even without the Shattered Halls key as bait. <3
July 30th, 2007
You have stats posted for what gear needs to be at for heroics, can I consider the higher ones what I would need for Kara? My guild will probably be running heroics and Kara at the sametime so I’m going to need gear that will work for both, any thoughts on what I need to look like before i go in there?
July 30th, 2007
There’s two groups of stats above - the first “smaller” group is supposedly for pre-Curator Karazhan, and the second group is for post-Curator.
My unbuffed mana regen is still sitting around 120 MP5 and we’ve taken down everything except Nightbane (mostly because none of us have completed the summoning quest) - so I’d say the numbers there are a bit high.
You definitely want to make sure your MP5, +heal, and stamina are kept as high as possible - trade off something you’re really high in for the others (and keep the gear in case you get an upgrade that allows you to swap back).
The stamina is important more because you don’t want the charge from Attumen to one-shot you than because you should be taking regular damage. Nothing you can do for a crit-charge, but you don’t want to be made of wet tissue paper.
Anyrate, to go back to your first question, the lower stats (especially the stamina) are a must for the first half of Karazhan. The higher stats are for the last half of Kara and can be somewhat juggled to suit the needs of your particular raid.
August 8th, 2007
I ran my first heroic last night *shudders* It was BRUTAL. I went in there before my gear was good enough (I’m the best geared healer in my guild) and I got my teeth kicked in. We ran Slave Pens. On the Greater Bogstroks and Defenders all I could do was spam Flash Heal… he’d die if I took the time to cast Greater Heal, even if I started casting before he took the first hit. The only consolation is my mana and MP5 seemed to be up to snuff. I just need about 400 more +Healing…. like that’s easy to come by
Just wanted to share my woes with you, and warn any readers not to go into heroics unprepared!
August 9th, 2007
@Galadria
*laughs* Welcome to the fold, my dear. Nothing like your first Heroic to knock you down a rung or two on the Ego meters. *grins*
The two bits you’ve mentioned are inarguably the worst. If you’ve got other people in the group who can knock down the mob’s attack power or hit rating…force them to use it. When my warlock uses Curse of Weakness on them, it’s a completely different fight to heal for.
And you have my deepest sympathies on the pain it causes to start a greater heal when your tank is at 100% health. It’s against everything we’ve taught ourselves thus far.
I’ve wiped the group more than a few times for those exact same reasons!
It may help to know that the tank’s gear also makes a huge difference. With a better-geared tank, we had a lot fewer wipes. You might find out if your tank has any wishlist items from non-heroics and go help him farm those. That’ll make heroics a ton easier. =]
Good luck! And if you have any warlocks or mages, expect to spend a lot of time in there getting Quagmirran’s Eye.
August 9th, 2007
Thanks for the advice. My tank did try a couple of different gear combinations (more stam vs more defense vs more block) I didn’t notice much of a difference. My group usually runs with a warlock and a mage, so I’m sure we’ll run it many times. I know he does have a wish list, but unfortunatley we all have very long ones, it’s hard to get everyones stuff in. No one ever wants to run Botanica… I want my Prismatic Mittens of Mending gosh dranit!! I guess that’s better than no one putting the effort into creating a wish list.
August 9th, 2007
@Galadria
May not be combinations so much as just not enough. Heroics are really in a class of their own. Until you get your gear up, you can sheep one of the bogstroks and have the warlock (if skilled enough) fear-kite one of the Defenders. Not easy, but it may help till you get your gear up. =]
Those gloves from Botanica are indeed awesome. We three-manned up to the first boss a frillion times before she finally dropped them for me, and I’ve never looked back. The gloves from Kara are an incremental upgrade over them. The trinket from the last boss - Bangle of Endless Blessings - is also worth note. I’m considering respeccing to a spirit build once I get it again (I stupidly disenchanted it)
For us, we vary the instances. We did Black Morass three times the other night, then yesterday stopped off at three of the different Zangarmarsh dungeons for drops from various bosses.
=] We try not to grind it to the point of insanity, but the drops won’t get themselves!
Sounds like you’ve got a lot of fun ahead of you. *grins*
August 21st, 2007
Very true, unfortunately - those buggers are tough.
One other thing I would mention (it might have been mentioned and I overlooked it) - the difficulty of some heroics compared to others might not be what you think. You might think that since Hellfire Ramparts was the first BC dungeon, it would be the easiest of the heroics, and that a level 70 dungeon like Mechanaar would be a huge step above it. In fact, all heroics are more or less normalized to the point where all mobs are roughly 70-72 elites. Mechanaar turns out to be probably the easiest one, and the phrase “quick 3 badger” is pretty common on my server. There are definitely things that make some heroics harder than others, but it might surprise you if you haven’t done any yet.
Question for you healers (I’m a hunter, but I do have a resto shammy alt I’m bringing up) - correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like in heroics you don’t worry about taking aggro. Because you HAVE to spam heals throughout each pull to keep your tank alive, and if he can’t hold the threat… well there’s not much you can do about that.
@Vonya
For Huntsman, we normally have everyone in the party (including healers and casters) except the hunters get in melee range for that last phase. That way he will only charge the hunters, who are wearing mail, who can get a spot heal and be ok. Stamina is very important for priests in Karazhan, from my experience, but more so for the post-Curator fights. For Shade of Aran and Netherspite, everyone in the party is going to be taking damage no matter what. In fact, we normally have our mages and priests eating stamina food instead of +heal or +dmg for those two fights.
August 22nd, 2007
@Esoth
You’re right, the relative ease of various heroics is surprising. You mention Mech as a quick three badges - this is true, but the difficulty of getting the remaining two badges in there is threefold what the first badges cost in terms of effort.
As to threat, the only place where we really have to worry is at the beginning of the fight, when the tank hasn’t yet had time to build a lot of threat but is still taking damage. This is where the Frisbee shines - I’m able to heal him and help him generate aggro.
Also, with regards to Huntsmen, he’ll sometimes do a shadow cleave as he walks back to the tank after charging - that cleave does more damage than the charge does, I think, and can take out a swath of clothies in a minute.
He doesn’t always do it, but we stay at range to avoid that. =]
August 27th, 2007
Updated to include information in comments to this point.
August 30th, 2007
@Esoth
I think that whether your tank can hold aggro due to healing is a fine measure of gear for him/her a least. As I’ve gone between Resto-spec and Feral-spec throughout my ‘career’ as an end-game druid, I’ve seen both sides. I’ve been the resto druid who, with a 50% reduction on threat between talents and buffs, couldn’t help but pull aggro because of the heal spam that was necessary to keep the tank alive, as well as the feral druid who went into a Heroic foolhardily thinking to herself that it’d be cake since she had just broken 20K Armor and 10K Health unbuffed(Both of which are FAR TOO LOW for a Druid tank in a Heroic).
Heroics can have immense rewards…the badges more often being the best of them (though stupid Nazan STILL hasn’t dropped my belt.), but you really need to be at the top of your game. I’ve done Shattered Halls on normal without CC…I can only imagine doing it on Heroic if I ever manage to get in aparty decked out in full Tier 6…and even then, I’m not so sure. “5-man raid,” is definitely the correct term to be used for a Heroic. If there are any slackers who are heading into one for the first time because they just got their key, the rest of the party will feel it.
August 30th, 2007
Oh wow, do I come late to the party or what. =P I would like to respectfully disagree with the whole “Never PUG Heroics” bit, because I have actually successfully pugged Heroic Mech, Slave Pens and Steamvaults. I find that Heroic pugs tend to consist of better players in general. I will say that it is infinitely better for one to have their first attempt at a Heroic be with players they can trust, but you can absolutely pug Heroics. Been there, done that, etc.
*shakes fist* I’m sick and tired of Heroic Slave Pens, and still Quagmirran will not drop his Eye. Does he not have eyes in his head or something?!
August 31st, 2007
@Lauchis
You must have way better luck than I. I’ll modify the text slightly, but I’d still rather wander around and pick flowers than PuG, Heroic or not.
I’ve been invited on a few random whisper invite Kara runs.
I was terrified and escaped as politely as I could.
August 31st, 2007
Comments have been Assimilated.
August 31st, 2007
Also, Hello Elryse!
December 19th, 2007
Ah yes, despite being a relatively old post I need to have a few words bleeding out of my heart right now.
Heroics I imagined to be hard. But hell, not THAT hard.
The first time we went to heroic Ramparts holding our breath and whimpering.. didn’t prepare us for the wipefest we were going to enter, despite trapping and magey CC. We gave up 12 wipes after, without even reaching the first boss.
The other day we decided to visit Sethekk Halls on heroic after unsuccessfully (meaning we got our asses handed to us by the pure shadow damage) trying to farm Mana Tombs first boss (heroic) for tanking boots. We had to check several times we WERE in a heroic.. we took out the whole place with 2 wipes, both of them on the boss that spams you with elementals and other funny stuff.
And even later, I solo-healed Underbog through (yes, even the 2 Bog Giant pull before Hungarfen and the Bog Lords without CC, kiting or other tricks.) alone. Was I proud myself or what?
I’m looking forward to next Friday’s Kara. I really am.
January 3rd, 2008
You’re so cute. This is exactly how I felt when I healed my first heroic. Also SP, with an insufficiently geared tank.
Divorce your husband and marry a palatank. I rolled one I love them so much (Zanikke, still 64). I’ve DPS’d hero shadowlabs with our raid palatank. No CC.
Heroic toughness, roughly speaking… Pens is an especially easy one. Labs and SV are tough. HFHalls and Arcatraz are downright hard. Do not enter Durn at any cost. The rest are all “easy enough”.
re: last post, you can type and Clique-heal at the same time ;D
I don’t even have most of my heals on my actionbar anymore, it’s just a place to look at cooldowns now - ie pws, frisbee (LOVE that term! *yoink*)
I use GHmax and GH2. The former does about 4.5k and I use it when the tank has taken 2-3k damage (in heroic). When the tank has 100%, I start the latter and cancel to get FSR ticks if it isn’t needed. I’ll let it heal even 500 points, it costs so little.
One comment talks about “not being able to keep up even with FH”. FH has a lower heal-per-second than greater heal - much lower. So you’ll fall behind and he’ll die. The best thing to do is shield+frisbee your tank and start GHing as he pulls. This gives you a nice buffer to begin with and a high HPS to guarantee he stays up. Overheal deals no threat, you can use mana potions and if the tank is dying that fast, the shield won’t gimp his rage.
You’re probably wayyy past me by now, but if you like, use Eldr (Argent Dawn-EU) as pre-raid wishlist. I don’t think better gear exists outside raid (and PvP, blech).