The Egotistical Priest
An irreverent and opinionated discussion of the many classes
in the World of Warcraft gaming universe.
Leadership
by Vonya
More than a bit belated, but Kirk over at Priestly Endeavors recently posted a superb article on Guild Management.
I’ve been a GL, but that doesn’t mean I’ve been a leader. I’ve founded a few very small guilds made up entirely of close friends - but that doesn’t mean I’ve been a leader.
I’m one of those people that doesn’t like being a leader. I don’t. I hate it. It stresses me out and churns my innards until I can’t eat. But I will pick up the role if it seems like nobody else is going to, or if they’re doing a bad job. I don’t like doing it.
I don’t like the “power” or the “fame”. I honestly don’t see why people seek leadership positions. There is so much drama, so much extra time and worry involved. And what’s worse, everyone seems to think you’re having an awesome time.
Maybe some leaders are, I dunno. But all the leaders I’ve met have worked twice as hard as anyone who was just a member. I reckon most of you know what I’m talking about.
It’s hard to be a leader of any kind, but being a GREAT leader is even more difficult. You need help, and you need advice from someone who’s been there.
The ideals and suggestions put forth in the article go beyond simply being a guild leader in an online video game. They are true for everyone, everywhere, no matter what field or role.
This is for the leader, who is desperately trying to keep their little herd of cats happy and working together.
This is for the member, who wants to know how they can help their leaders, and wants to know what really goes on behind those vaunted closed doors.
It’s a superb read, and one I’d highly recommend to everyone, be they WoW player or not.
August 17th, 2007
I’m the same way. I don’t like to deal with drama or have responsibility in deciding things that other people may not like, and I’m quite happy taking instructions and just doing what i’m told, most of the time.
I don’t have any idea what our officers have to deal with, but i’m sure i don’t want any part of it!
The most important part of that article for members to take away from it is the part about telling your officers or guild leader if you’re displeased about something. You don’t have to whine or harp on something repeatedly, but it’s just as bad to bottle something up inside yourself and pretend it’s going to go away if you just ignore it.
It strikes me as similar in a way to having an intimate relationship with someone. For that matter, -any- relationship runs better when you include communication. Everything i know about intimate relationships i’ve learned from sitcoms, so i may not be the most qualified person to speak on this matter, but what i have observed in those sitcoms is that, in any sort of friendly relationship, be it between friends or lovers, communication is the most valuable tool with which you can keep things smooth.
There are plenty of stories about the trouble couples get themselves into by hiding things from each other, and one of sitcom’s favorite jokes is how people (usually women, sometimes men) will pretend everything is okay between themselves and another person while secretly harboring a grudge or a growing displeasure, sometimes sharing that displeasure with their other friends, yet not letting on about it to the person who really needs to know about it: the person they have a problem with! You know what i mean, if you’ve seen enough late night TV: “honey, what’s wrong?” “oh, nothing, dear. *visciously chopping onions*” “if you say so. by the way, my friend Rob is coming over for dinner” “that’s it! i’m going home to mother!”.
In many ways, your relationship with your guild is just like any other among friends and family members. If you develop an issue with another person or policy and you don’t tell this to anybody who has any ability to fix it, then you’re relying on them picking up hints from you, and i suspect it’s probably a lot harder to detect subtle body language and tones of voice when you only communicate via text, the occasional voice conference, and your in-game actions. Believe me, the way your character is scowling at the feral druid who just outrolled you on healing cloth isn’t going to communicate anything. That’s just your regular face.
The reason you’re (hopefully) telling people when you have a problem is so that they know that somebody is displeased about it, and perhaps you can give them a few suggestions on how to fix the problem. Keeping things bottled up inside won’t improve anything.
August 17th, 2007
Now i remember what i was going to add to that! Sometimes, people aren’t aware that they’re doing something that is displeasing other people, and if nobody tells them, they’re going to go right on doing it until somebody cracks, and that’s not healthy for anybody.
August 17th, 2007
Good link, good read. I like it when bloggers I enjoy reading link to those they enjoy reading. A few of my own observations.
Huge guilds are very impersonal. I was in a guild with over 400 members, you couldn’t get help, you couldn’t give enough, and nobody remembered when you did. The entitlement paradigm of “I’m in your guild so I expect your help now” can be a real drag on your desire to assist other members. Occasionally, someone would actually issue thanks for a gratuitous instance run.
I look for smaller guilds where people like helping other members. Some examples of very positive signs:
1. Other members ask if you want or need help occasionally.
2. You aren’t barraged with help requests and when you’re busy it’s respected. AKA, members are not looking for the short cut to 70 and are willing to help themselves get there.
3. Higher level members occasionally send lower level members items pertaining to their class/level. Be it a great drop or a great value bought in the AH. It’s my personal routine to do this for all new members and optional after that.
When I finally started a guild, I found #3 to make all the difference, #1 and #2 just fell into place without any work. And nobody ever asked for more than what they received. I may be lucky, but it’s the only guild I’ve been in where members, on a regular basis, actually turn down offered help. I’m still surprised when someone says no thanks, just questing.
Anybody who disagrees with these values moves on to another guild. I haven’t seen it happen yet, but if I saw any vicious arguments, flaming, or excessive cursing, those individuals would be on the way out too. Mutual respect makes the guild, an adult concept I know… I can see what’s ahead with managing raid drops if we outgrow 5 mans, all the more important to establish mutual respect now. Oh, and we will go back again and again until the fellow guildie gets his phat loot!
Thanks for your blog EP!
August 20th, 2007
@Mel
That’s…the perfect comment. I agree completely. My raid leader gets an earful (I know, I know, you’re SHOCKED) but he knows that it’s probably a worse sign if I’m not saying something.
I’ve seen (and been on both ends of) exactly what you’re talking about, with just bottling things up or only talking to someone who can’t fix anything.
There’s a place and time for honesty, and a place and time for sparing someone’s feelings.
Things generally don’t fix themselves, and anything worth keeping is worth fighting for.
*hugs* Another superb comment, Mel. <3 Thank you!
August 20th, 2007
@PlateHealer
That’s an interesting perspective.
I’ve never been in a guild THAT large (thankfully) and it’s a delicate balancing act to find the right size and not get too small or too big.
I’m surprised at your notes that #3 made a difference - I guess I’ve always just run instances to get gear for myself and others, rather than AH buying. I personally look for 1 and 2, and 3 wouldn’t factor into me looking for a guild.
Mutual respect makes the guild
Amen. That’s the crux of all of it, I think. Very well put.
August 20th, 2007
I’m really sorry for another long winded post…it’s important subject matter. I think you need to compile a “How to Combat Entitlement” post. I think it will be your Jerry Maguire memo.
#1 and #3 could be merged and restated as demonstrate to fellow guildies (especially lower levels who aren’t twinks) that the guild cares about the welfare and development of all of its members. Do what you gotta do to accomplish that, run them through an instance or buy an item in AH. I like to do both, but prefer the latter as it saves time. As I’m sure you know, when you reach end game, the demand for time has dramatically increased while valuation of money has equally diminished. Also, in the large guild, lowbies *expected* to be run through instances, but were shocked when you took the time to get and mail them an item they needed. Shock is good.
Naturally, I don’t buy items for high level members, but they might get a fire mote or something else I know they need if I come across it. It’s the thought that counts… For young players, you can’t let greed/expectations replace proactive giving. I’ve seen what that guild looks like, and it’s not for me! A proactive gift is more powerful than fulfilling a request.
Obviously, I *hope* this will create a higher level of respect and trust as members reach higher levels and hopefully mitigates the greedier side of things. A fundamental human quality is don’t take from those who give, or don’t bite the hand that feeds you… I always thought it ironic that the “greed” button represents the non-greedy choice.
I may be under/overestimating the character of fellow players, but we all know good ppl play the game, and that’s who I want to spend my time with. I’m just not sure if it’s the exception or the rule, so I try to proactively manage those in my direct environment.
I know you’ve played the game a lot longer than I (I have but one lvl 70), so I’m sure you’ve seen the best and worst of it. Your opinion is valuable. I don’t want to go through what BRK has in his guilds (see comments to “My Final Goodbye” Jan7,07 and “From A Question, A Final Answer” Jan9,07). You can see the negative impact on peoples’ *real lives*, so these discussions and your insights are important. For me, a game can only be ruined once.
“Leadership” was an appropriate title for this article. Much shorter than “Trying to have fun while interacting with people varying in maturity, education, values and goals to whom no personal accountability exists.”
Your Entitlement blog set this off! Good job, it needed to be said.
August 20th, 2007
I actually said, “Everything i know about intimate relationships i’ve learned from sitcoms”, did i? This cow has not been a dating man.
August 21st, 2007
@PlateHealer
Feel free to be as long-winded as you like. It’s certainly something I’m familiar with!
Your argument is compelling. Or, as I’ve heard others say, “I am intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.”
Shock is a good thing. I just don’t know how to balance gift-giving with my famous entitlement rant - even in real life. I give a good-faith gift and from then on it seems to be expected of me, rather than considered the happy surprise it was intended to be.
Sure, “Leadership” was shorter, but I like your title better. *winks*
Also, I’ve been playing a long time, but I also only have a single level 70. Game knowledge isn’t based on loot or numbers, but rather on a personal basis. I wouldn’t dare assume myself to be more knowledgeable about the game than you, based on what I’ve read thus far.
Guild lives can never truly be separated from real lives. I’ve shed enough tears over guild drama to know just how bad it can hurt.
An excellent round of replies. /salute
@Mel
*laughs* Actually, I’d say that most of the U.S. learned all they know about relationships from sitcoms. =]
August 21st, 2007
I am an officer and class leader of raiding guild - currently we are clearing Kara with two teams a week, and are only just recently getting enough people to start the 25 man content. It is a very difficult transition. Anyway, I am not the number one leader of the guild, but I am (along with 2 or 3 others) just behind that position. I help make decisions, I know all of the leadership discussion going on, I am involved with recruitment, I run the guild website on my own machine, I am the raid leader for one of the Kara groups, etc.
And let me tell you, it SUCKS.
What I really want to do is just play my hunter, and maintain the website. But there are plenty of times where, if no one steps up, things will not get accomplished. If I want to get my character through Karazhan, that means at least me and a few others are going to have to work very hard to learn the fights and explain them to everyone else when we go in there - and we’re going to have to come up with solutions to any problems we encounter. It would be SO much easier if I could just show up and kill stuff and let someone else plan the raid, find out who can go, get people of the right class, get people that are properly equipped, etc. Now this is just one of many situations that require leadership, but my point is - someone needs to step up in these situations and the only benefit these leaders get is that the goal might be accomplished - the same benefit that all of the non-leaders get too.
Interestingly enough, I’ve seen a lot of problems that are the exact opposite of what Kirk talks about. Normally we get people who complain TOO much and it is difficult to impossible to reason with them.
For instance:
1. Someone really wants to go to Kara, but has not run many level 70 instances and thus does not have very good gear. We meanwhile have other people who spend a lot of time grinding for rep, gold, professions, running instances, etc, in order to get the best gear possible pre-Kara. It is only fair that should we have more people wanting to go than we can take, we give priority to the latter. But as an officer, the former will complain to me - and continue to complain after explaining that this has been considered, explaining our position, and recommending ways that they can improve they character.
2. Character A is a rogue, and can only make it to raids on the weekends. Characters B, C, and D are also rogues and can only raid on the weekends (we have a weekend Kara group and a weekday Kara group). Well we can’t take 4 rogues on a 10-man, so some of them can’t go. So the one or two that we just can’t take will complain that they don’t get to go and that the guild is only serving the top players. What are we supposed to say to that?
3. We work so hard to get a loot policy that is fair to everyone. We consider recommendations and even outright hostile arguments. And in the end, I really think we do the best we can to have a loot policy that prevents anyone from being overly greedy and provides an opportunity to get some great loot provided you work hard. But we are always going to get opinions that are mutual exclusive and eventually we have to make a decision, and further irrational complaints about said policy are not going to do anything but cause problems for everyone. And yes, those people that can make it to every raid have a better chance of getting loot than the person who can only show up for a small percentage of them - and that’s the way it should be.
I’m frankly surprised at how many 30-somethings and 40-somethings whine like babies when they don’t get their way, and how many teenagers are capable of looking at something objectively and compromising.
Well this turned into a hell of a rant. My point is, you can try really hard to have a fair guild that is friendly and that progresses, but in the end you can’t please everyone and it creates a lot of stress for those people that have to make decisions.
August 22nd, 2007
@Esoth
I also agree, I don’t think age is a deciding factor of maturity.
You can never please everyone all the time, and it sounds like you’ve got one heck of a snarl to work through there.
I don’t know the whole story, obviously, but from what you’ve said, the people who refuse to accept a reasonable explanation would get kicked by me. People are entitled to complain and let leadership know when things go wrong, but if they don’t like the way things are run when they’re given the explanation for why the decision was made, then they’re following the wrong leader. Period. Whether that leader is right or wrong, whether the member is right or wrong is immaterial.
And WoW offers people the ability to “vote with their feet”, as someone else so eloquently said. If you don’t like the way things are run, /gquit.
August 22nd, 2007
@ EP
>I just don’t know how to balance gift-giving with my famous entitlement rant - even in real life.
Damnit, I was hoping you had a draft of “HOw to Prevent Entitlement” (HOPE) already in development. My HOPE has been dashed.
@ Esoth
That sounds terrible, you’ve listed the qualities I hope to keep out of our guild, possibly a fool’s errand I know. Especially since EP dashed my HOPE.
If that kind of attitude ever does ever take hold, I will hand over the guild to the only officer, my son, who is far more verbally direct than I (/cast F-bombs) and take up fishing. Til then, I’ll just spam /gremove faster than I can Flash of Light (no cooldown rocks!). In fact, I’m off to write a macro for that right now.
August 23rd, 2007
@PlateHealer
Sorry to disappoint. There are a few things that can be done to help someone who wants to stop being a part of the entitlement generation…
…but the key is that they have to want to be helped in the first place. And THAT is the thing I do not know how to inspire.
August 24th, 2007
Thats why I like being second-in-command. almost all the perks, the ability to change things you don’t like, without copping most of the flack
August 31st, 2007
One further comment, mostly on my previous comment: It’s a bit different for raiding guilds, I think, unless you are the top one or two raiding guild on the server. If a couple people are acting up and your solution is to gremove, that may mean you don’t get to raid that week. And then people may start getting restless that you aren’t raiding, and more people will leave. What fun!
August 31st, 2007
@Esoth
That depends on how well the raiders were recruited. The point at which people get gkicked for bad behavior probably ought to have been reached well before they get to be depended-on members of the raiding team.