The Egotistical Priest
An irreverent and opinionated discussion of the many classes
in the World of Warcraft gaming universe.
No pun today and Introducing Kytta
by Vonya
…I know, I’m disappointed too. But I couldn’t come up with anything on time. The last ones have come to me the night before, when I could torture my husband with them.
No pun surfaced (it might have been the alka-seltzer that knocked me out) so no puns. I do have one really nice punchline, but it’ll take skill to get there correctly and you never want to rush a pun.
That being said, I have a request for you guys. I’ve found that my lack of shadow knowledge is nothing less than shameful. So I’m going to dust off one of my old priests (before they introduced the draenei and I immediately dropped everything to reroll) and she’s going to be respecc’d shadow.
I’m going to be VERY casually playing her (my hunter alt is getting most of my love right now), but I’ll post her progress and random questions as time goes on.
Kytta was my almost-raiding priestess many moons ago. She’s level 60 and geared out in healing cloth, but has not stepped into Outland yet. My hubby did a really quick respec of her a couple months ago to try out a theory regarding shadow, but I’d like to respec her again before I start soloing her.
I already know I’m going to have to drop some pretty cash on the AH for some Outland greens to get her started…what I’m worried more about is the spec.
What, in YOUR opinion, are the talents I should never skip? What would be useful, what is the laughingstock of the shadow community?
I’m looking at three possible ways to play her : solo, duo, group.
For now, I’m looking at the solo/duo side, but later on she may become a grouping toon. Definitely not looking at raiding or PVP, not even instancing unless I respec for group.
What talents would you guys recommend?
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THIS SPACE RESERVED FOR THE CHOSEN SPEC
August 24th, 2007
Can’t help you, Ego, but I’ll be very interested to follow Kytta’s progress. I’m having so much fun with my healer, but reading as much as I have lately about priests in general, I’m really getting the itch to roll up a shadow priest.
August 24th, 2007
I would go for something like this (at 60):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priest/talents.html?500230000000000000000000000000000000000000500252010231123051251
putting the next points to get to something like this (while you level):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priest/talents.html?500230003000000000000000000000000000000000500252210251123051551
And then this when you reach 70 (grouping and raiding):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priest/talents.html?500230003000000000000000000000000000000000503250210250123051551
(done this in less then 3 minutes, so i might have made some mistakes)
August 24th, 2007
lol, yeah, i did (at 70 for grouping/raiding you dont really need spirit tap, i think blockout could be more usefull)
also, you need +hit gear, and +damage (the focus on stats and crit come in second)
August 24th, 2007
So who are you going to duo with? Thats the real question. Because if your going to Duo with some other high DPS class you might want to shy away from Spirit Tap. And that effects the build.
Solo Build or someone else who isn’t likely to get the killing blow over you.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=rVMRzhZZx0gpMtRhtyo
Group Build or a duo build where you arn’t likely to get the killing blow and want the other person to be able to control aggro over you. Thus the non improved Vampiric Embrace I’ve noticed a huge difference in priests that have that talent. They tend to die a lot more espically in multi mob pulls.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=rVMRzhZZVGgdMtohtAo
Well I have never leveled one past 70 I’ve helped theroy craft with mutiple priests and they all eventually tweak my builds to there own liking I think either of those should help you out I hope.
I’ve shyed away from leveling a priest because I’ve always had a rap as a good healer… and people expect/want me to heal. My Shamans nick name use to be The Confused Shaman because I use to heal better then a lot of priests which was unheard of on my server… Back in the day that is.
August 24th, 2007
@Zasp
First big question - you’ve got the mana-battery spell in both of those.
From my memory/experience, that spell costs more than it returns, and thus using it for soloing is wasteful.
Is that incorrect?
August 24th, 2007
Well my friend might have mad skills but after seeing him take 100 mobs before he got bored of counting he didn’t stop once… for mana or health just keep’t going.
And like I said I’ve never actually played one its all theroy craft… and I’ve never seen a priest skip it that went shadow… Well one but he couldn’t play a priest.
And in a 5 man with more then one caster it helps a lot… its kinda like the Shamans Mana Spring Totem everyone else gets a nice return the Shaman him/herself barely breaks even.
August 24th, 2007
@Zasp
Right, for group situations it’s a utility spell. Just for soloing, since you have to spend more mana to get less mana back, just wondering if it’s worthwhile.
Less of a question on the VE, of course, since the spell itself is cheaper than thinking about it…really only a global cooldown cost.
I definitely don’t want to spend time after each fight sitting on my arse and drinking…want to keep my mana efficiency high.
August 24th, 2007
Ego,
Maybe they use Rank 1 instead of Rank 3 at 70? For soloing because 425 mana with all your stuff kicking shouldn’t be that big of a loss of mana for the amount it would return… plus with spirit tap kicking in and with having meditation it might all just work its self out. I dunno though… I’m thinking my alt is going to be a Priest haha…
August 24th, 2007
well, you didn’t really reply to me, or ask me that, but I ‘ll give you my 2 cents anyway: VT is actually a strong spell in your rotation - dps wise - and it’s kind of pointless to go pve shadow and skip that.
I say that because the spell alone won’t really do much as mana-battery, but since you have to cast your other shadow spells to kill something anyways, you will get mana back for each and any of them. And that’s the catch.
As shadow, you are really gear dependent, and your focus is on +spell damage gear (as i said before), and as you stack more and more of it, all your spells will get more mana efficient (and so will be your VT), and i.e. you can kill a lvl 65ish mob with only one sw:pain
(and time to spare, of course - try doing that with 6 at a time, and you got yourself a hobby)
about the specs:
you should be asking yourself if martyrdon is actually useful for pve or not, and imo if you’re even planning on wanding things down, stay holy/disc.
and yeah, before you have a little gear for it, shadow is going to suck
August 24th, 2007
Ego, I went holy at about 62 or so, but was shadow before that. I loved both of the vampiric talents. In my expirence the purpose for the VT was to keep me from having to sit and drink. Once I got a little practice with using it, I never had to stop. I don’t see how a shodow priest can pass on it. That’s MHO. As always tho, do what makes you happy. Spend a few gold and play a coupld of specs for a couple of days each, see what fits your playstyle.
August 24th, 2007
Joining the dark side, I see.
Once you hit 70, you can always consider PvP gear. Blackout is especially useful. Can’t count the amount of times I’ve been blacked out. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you’re Mind Flaying, there is a chance to Blackout is on each tick of the Flay right?
I would use Spirit Tap only for leveling up. Once you ding 70, respec.
August 24th, 2007
use the ptr to see what fits you best
August 24th, 2007
I wouldn’t really worry about gear, because once you take her to Outland, the caster gear you get from quest rewards pretty much replaces all your old world caster gear. I think the first 5-6 quests you do in Honor Hold more or less is an upgrade for all your major gear pieces. Just be prepared to look like a fashion victim.
As for talents, your current spec is missing two absolutely essential shadow spells: Shadow Reach and Focused Mind. Shadow Reach doesn’t really seem like much, but I can’t stop singing its praises. It’s one of those talents that you don’t realise how valuable it is until you can start Mind Flaying a mob from 4 yards farther away than you are used to. It’s that much farther that the mob has to run to you, and that much longer that you can DPS that sucker down before you get hit and get your casting interrupted.
Focused Mind is such a lovely thing just to reduce your mana usage from overall DPS. It’s small and steady, but it adds up, and ultimately, you’ll get better DPM (damage per mana) and be doing more efficient damage to mobs mana-wise.
Remember, more killing, less drinking.
VT does use up more mana than it returns if you’re soloing and leveling. To be honest, until you stack up the spell damage, VT will cost you more mana than you get back, even with all your shadow spells. I don’t remember the exact number, but once you stack on enough spell damage, with VT up and running, you actually get back more mana than you use with a very mana efficient spell cycle. However, since you’re just leveling up, it’s up to you whether you want to use it. I normally don’t. It’s Mind Blast -> SW:P -> VE -> MF -> SW:D. You can just Mind Flay to death until you get SW:D. So for a purely soloing talent… eh. I wasn’t impressed with it when I was leveling, to be honest, but once I got into a group situation, all the caster types were practically falling over themselves with glee at their mana regen.
@Zasp
I noticed that you skipped a few key shadow priest spells in your proposed shadow priest builds. Imp SW:P is so, so key. A 6 second duration to SW:P is basically two additional SW:P ticks, and right now with my gear, one tick of SW:P is a minimum of 500 spell damage, so that’s essentially 1000 spell damage lost, right off the bat. While Ego won’t have that kind of spell damage, I still think she should take it, because the additional damage adds up, and with a longer duration, the fear kiting method that I mentioned in her previous post really works nicely, because you’re doing damage for longer, even if they come out of fear.
I have Imp VE, and I can promise you that I don’t die very often. Why? Because I know how to manage my threat. Shadow priests who don’t know how to manage their threat deserve to get eaten, and that’s a fact. Priests don’t have an aggro wipe. Fade is not an aggro wipe. It’s a temporary aggro dump so the tank can pick a mob back up. If you are a shadow priest, you manage aggro proactively and not reactively like hunters, mages, warlocks and rogues (basically all the “pure DPS” classes) do. Those other classes can nuke-nuke-nuke-feint/vanish/invisibility/feign death/soulshatter-nuke-nuke-nuke. Good shadow priests nuke, watch their threat and watch their mana. Simultaneously.
August 24th, 2007
spriest from 1-70 here, currently raiding as a mana battery and usually top 3 DPS. Vampiric Touch (the mana battery) is usually mana neutral for me when soloing, at most “costing” ~100 mana but at the same time, causing dmg. My Sequence is usually VT, SWP, MF, Fear, MF MF MF finish with SWD etc for soloing.
VT *IS* one of the top, if not #1 reason to bring spriests to a raid.
Once you have your hit rating capped for boss fights (which is much easier with 5 points in Shadow Focus for a +10% hit), DMG is your main focus. DMG DMG DMG DMG DMG. DMG = Mp5 for your party.
The typical shadow builds are around 14/0/47. Skip improved fade. Next to useless. Improved PW:S is mostly useless too, ok well, not “useless” but the talent points could be spent better somewhere else. I personally put 1/3 in PWS and 2/2 in Martyrdom for when I PVP — the real talents in Disc you want is the Meditation talent to give you at least a bit of regen. (Mana pots are part of a regular rotation for me) — Actually, the 2nd group build listed by Zasp is about 90% close to my shadow talents — matches my disc talents.e it).
Personally, I prefer to keep Silence (which means Imp Psychic Scream) as it IS handy in Pve (and of course PVP) but others may vary.
Check out shadowpriest.com - chock full of stickies on things like gear & talents for spriests.
August 24th, 2007
If you are a shadow priest but don’t have VT, you’ll be stuck soloing because nobody will want you in a group!
More than 2 points into Improved Mind Blast is a bit of a waste if you’re getting 3 ticks out of Mind Flay, because you can’t reduce the cooldown past the point where you still have to use Mind Flay twice between MB’s. In my experience with Mind Flay, it takes more like 7 seconds rather than 6 seconds to cast and get all 6 ticks, so one point is enough that you very rarely have to wait for MB to cooldown (like 0.25 seconds), and two points is enough that you never do.
Well, here’s my planned build. I am open to criticism.
August 24th, 2007
Spirit Tap is great for soloing, not really relevant for grouping. But its GREAT for soloing.
All the people bagging VT - for grouping, its a solid useful thing that helps everyone, but the important thing to remember soloing is it gives you a second DOT, not as good as SW:P, but two DOTs is better than one, and a nice option to have.
Of course, Shadow Weaving is all round good for shadow priests, but it also means if you group with locks they will love you. And Misery is good to make every caster in the group like you.
August 24th, 2007
That is from a purely PvE perspective, mind you. For PvP, you want Martyrdom (like den said) and more Improved Mind Blast, because you will be losing ticks on MF from being hit, and you want to be able to use MB as often as possible.
August 24th, 2007
=P I can’t seem to stop the tide. Ahhhh. Sorry, Ego, I’m going to put up a recommended leveling build for you, with an explanation. Just. Didn’t want to do that with my tl;dr version of replies to comments. ^^;; Also. I am a shadow priest. With Opinions. =P
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=rxMMZZxMxuMxRhtV
This is a link to an incomplete shadow build. There are 12 points that I haven’t placed in talents, because I just picked out the absolutely essential talents. No matter what you do end up putting the rest of the 12 points into, never take Imp Fade ever. No question about it, Imp Fade is the worst spell in the shadow tree. Period. With Imp Fade at 70, a shadow priest dumps 1500 threat for 10 seconds. That’s pretty much as much threat as a non crit Mind Blast with okay gear. My non crit Mind Blast hits for around 1800 damage (and thus 1800 threat). You see how this can be problematic. Never take it. Ever.
I’ve already discussed the merits of Shadow Reach, Imp SW:P and Focused Mind, so I’ll touch on other talents instead. Shadow Weaving, Darkness, Shadowform and Misery increase your spell damage, and all of it adds up really nicely (actually, I think it’s more multiplicative, but that’s just details), so always take those. Shadow Weaving is particularly wonderful for grouping with warlocks, and Misery is incredible when you’re grouping with spell casters of any sort (including paladins) as it essentially boosts all caster DPS by 5%. I didn’t put points in VT, and I’ve explained that up above. *points* I don’t think it’s worthwhile for solo leveling, but definitely key in groups.
In my opinion, once you get Shadowform, Wand Spec is worthless, because you shouldn’t be wanding any more. Martyrdom is nice, because when you’re soloing, a mob is going to eventually get in your face and start beating on you. While it is really a PvP-oriented talent, it still procs during PvE, and being able to get off your Mind Flay without losing ticks or that last Mind Blast can be key to staying alive.
Confession: I put 3 points in Imp Mind Blast just so I could move up the tree, but I don’t feel that it’s absolutely essential. I’d say that Mind Blast Shadow Power? If you like crit, go for Shadow Power. I’d just as soon not crit as a crit spell causes 150% more threat, and that’s me speaking as a raiding shadow priest. Also, you only have two spells that crit: Mind Blast and SW:D; one of them has a fairly lengthy cooldown, and one of them damages you if the mob doesn’t die. This is just one of those things where YMMV, but if you want more damage, you can put the rest of your talent points into either or both.
A lot of people say that Imp Fear is wasted talent points, but I personally don’t. It is another PvP oriented talent, but I use it in PvE in a worse-than-OH-SHIT moment. You know, when you’re taking on an elite mob and then not only pull a pat, but get mobs respawning on top of you? Yeah… Fear–>PW:S->RUN LIKE HELL->PW:S again->OH LOOK FEAR CD IS UP. FEAR->Continue running like hell. No lie, it has saved my bacon more times than I like to count. But as one of my friends say, I am also crazy and suicidal and more than happy to bite off more than I can chew (I also emerge victorious about 85% of the time). Yes, it is highly situational, but if you like fear kiting, Imp Fear is nice to have.
I initially took Imp Fear just to get Silence, which is invaluable for pulling casters. You see a Caster Needed For a Quest in a pack of melee types? Silence the caster, and watch it come running to you in a fit of wrath. It’s also nice for preventing those pesky heals, fireballs, arcane missiles… But again, this is one of those spells where YMMV.
Blackout is another nice choice if you so desire. This is actually another PvP-oriented talent, but it works juuuust fine in PvE. It’s so nice to stop one of those evil melee types in its tracks while you kill it. Did I mention that it procs all the time? A timely blackout has saved my bacon more than once.
Imp Fort is self-explanatory, although you don’t need it. I actually leveled up with nothing in Disc past 40, but I wish I had. You can also put 3 points in Imp Bubble (see, Ego? I used your term) if you bubble a lot. In my opinion, Imp Fort Imp Bubble Martyrdom (I am biased towards this choice, especially for leveling), and really if you’re that far up in the tree, get 5 points in the second tier and pick up Meditation and Inner Focus for sweet, sweet mana efficiency, if you so desire.
Shadow Resilience is PvP oriented, so I wouldn’t take it. Mobs don’t exactly crit like a fire mage. Take Shadow Affinity if you plan on instancing to level. Stack on the spell damage, stam and int for leveling, and go from there. =)
Happy leveling!
August 24th, 2007
>__
August 24th, 2007
al;sdkg I fail at comments.
Mind Blast = Shadow Power and Imp Fort = Imp PW:S = Martyrdom (with me biased towards Martyrdom for leveling). As always, YMMV.
August 24th, 2007
@lauchis - most important talents and you didnt get VT?
Now, I know martyrdom can help solo sometimes, but later in the game it is completely useless for pve… After all what good is a proc when you get a critical hit, if you are already dead?
I would still pick pw:s over martyrdom
And to be honest, as a shadow priest myself, inner focus = free prayer of fortitude… cause it makes no sense to me to spend 1 talent point in a free cast that adds crit for a spriest… But that might be me, for being too lazy to “use” those kind of spells/trinkets and etc. (i like passive effects, lol)
August 24th, 2007
@ jao
Most important talents… for soloing. VT is The Key Talent for Grouping. Absolutely, 100% yes. A shadow priest without VT in a group has failed at her job. But for leveling up and exclusively soloing, then I’d say that VT isn’t as important. Sure, it regens some mana, but it’s a dot with a cast time, and we have that nicer instant dot. =) As with all things, YMMV, and I rarely see shadow priests without it, but when I’m out farming I don’t use it, and I didn’t use it when I was leveling.
I use it more in instances and in raids, but Ego wasn’t asking about that.
August 24th, 2007
@Lauchis
Ego, was indeed asking about Group Talents… but to respond to you.
I skipped Imp SW:P in the solo build I proposed because unless you let it tick to full its not going to even kick in.. 18 seconds is a long time for a mob less its an elite and 24 seconds? Forget about it at least I’d hope forget about it… I’ve dropped things faster then that as a Holy Paladin… Hell I use kill my Demon in SSC in 30… I’m postive Shadow Priests drop them quicker….
In the Group Build you should have noticed it was there because in group builds you tend to instance more and what not dealing with elites or bosses that dont drop like flies.
Every priest that specs out of Imp Vampiric Embrace usually gets to move up in the damage and mana they return because they aren’t healing the group for as much thus causing less threat. Also in a group situation, I’ve seemed to notice that Imp Vampiric Embrace can help your group out, if your healer cant manage his/her mana. But if they can most of the VE tics go to Overheals in all situations… I don’t see the point in 2 points when it can be mostly accredited to over heal. Again as you keep saying your mileage may very.
August 24th, 2007
@ Zasp
She was talking about leveling, so I mostly focused on solo/duoing and not grouping. I agree with you that if I were single mob focused the additional time my dot ticks would be wasted. However, I tend to fear kite multiple mobs, so I juggle about two or three mobs simultaneously, and the longer SW:P ticks, the quicker they all die. With three mobs running around, a Mind Blast and a SW:P running the full length can kill one mob while I Mind Flay one down. =P I am a fan of killing two birds (mobs!) with one stone.
My philosophy is that if VE heals are going to overheal, then I don’t get threat. If VE heals are not going to overheal, then they are needed heals. While it is true that I am threat-capped, I don’t find that Imp VE limits my DPS, and I often go on a heavy DPS cycle without pulling threat. I will admit that the fact that I run with insanely awesome tanks helps a ton.
August 24th, 2007
Now, if only Improved Fade made the threat reduction permanent instead of temporary…
Okay, right now at level 43, the way i’m killing enemies is intended to maximize my mana efficiency to minimize downtime. I just Shield, Pain, Flay Flay Flay Flay, then wand a couple of times, and they’re dead. I hardly ever drink, but it is not a quick process as these are not high-dps spells.
Would you consider it more effective to blow mana on frequent MB’s and drink more often?
Wordpress is telling me that i’m posting comments too quickly. I’m not sure how that can be, as it’s been at least half an hour since my last comment.
August 24th, 2007
@…everyone
Woo, all sorts of stuff to go through. Rest assured I’m reading it, I just can’t reply quick enough!
Firstly, you’re both right. I’m looking for both solo AND group strategies and talents. =] I want to know about both of them separately, and your impromptu discussion is more useful to me than you guys may realize. That way when I make my build, I can choose talent knowing that it’s more useful for group than for solo, and vice versa.
Also, thank you to EVERYONE for the spell rotation you use for killing things - that’s also a huge help, because I definitely want to be efficient. Don’t know yet whether I’ll be brave enough for the fear kiting - I don’t like juggling mobs and fears make me edgy, even knowing I can slow it down.
Mel, it’s possible the site is saying that someone else posted too quickly just as you tried to? I’ve not hit the problem yet, and I sometimes spam comments, so that’s the only solution I can think of. Stop posting at the same time as someone else!! *winks*
And I think everything else I’d have would be specific talent commentary, and I want to retalent while reading all of the notes from everyone, so that’ll be a few hours after I get off work. =]
August 24th, 2007
@Melnayo
For single targeting mobs down, I’d do Mind Blast -> SW:P -> VE -> Mind Flay to death. You’ll probably drink more than if you were working on your more spell efficient cycle, but you’ll kill mobs faster. I’d say experiment with a few different spell cycles and see which ones you prefer.
Our most mana efficient spells (and the reason you rarely drink) are better endurance spells, while our high DPS burst spells are for fast damage. Shadow priests are basically gimped affliction warlocks, which is why once you get VE, fear kiting can work if you know what you’re doing. =)
August 24th, 2007
first - gah, I hate computer problems. Borrowing a temporary for short-term sucks…
Let’s see. Recommended talents.
In my opinion, regardless of server or grouping (and knowing you’re leveling), I recommend the following talents.
- Shadowform. Yes, it’s obvious but let me emphasize it again. +15% to shadow damage, -15% to all incoming damage - and it stacks with Inner Focus.
- Darkness 5/5. 10% more damage from shadow.
- Mindflay plus 5/5 Misery. Mindflay is what you use to fill damage gaps while waiting for Mindblast to cooldown. Adding 5% more (stacks with SF and Darkness) is just gravy. The downside to Misery is it’s a high-tree talent, so you might pass.
- Shadow Weaving - though you can get away with 4/5. 20/40/60/80/100 times it’ll add a debuff that a) can stack up to five times; b) each increased shadow-damage by 2% (10% total, we’re up to 35% for most and 40% for MF).
Those are the ONLY talents I think every - EVERY - shadowpriest “must” have. There are a few more I think very useful, but with caveats.
- Shadow Focus negates Shadow Resistance. You can have up to 5 (10%). If your opponents aren’t resisting, it doesn’t matter. Remember that everything equal to you has a base 4% resist, so 2/5 is a minimum — though you never overcome the last 1%.
- Improved SW:P is only good IN SOME CASES. It increases total damage of SW:P by 17%/33%, but does so by adding 1 or 2 more ticks of damage. That’s 6 more seconds of battle. If you expect your foes to be dead inside 20 seconds, this is a waste. Grinding - it’s a waste. Bosses or slow-kill grinds - it’s magnificent.
- Shadow Reach 2/2 adds 20% to your range. While “that’s nice” for SW:P and MB (moving them from 30 to 36 yards, and so letting you cast from outside most mob-type casters’ ranges), where it REALLY pays is for MindFlay, moving it from 20 to 24. 20 is the breakline for melee/ranged (110/130% aggro line). For priests, that’s enough said.
- VE and VT as discussed above, with my comment being VT only if you are regularly grouping with other casters. Even duo with a caster makes this pay.
- And the last but not least shadow ‘useful’: Focused Mind. 5/10/15% mana savings on two of the three damage spells you use all the time. To lock in it’s use, would you take a talent that saved you that percentage of mana GH and FH?
Penultimate recommendations are in discipline.
- More than 3/4 of the builds I have done over the past couple of years included Meditation regardless of how wild they got. Mana regen is mana regen, period.
- Inner focus is, perhaps surprisingly, less so — more than half, but it’s really only “good” for an “oh crap” spell. If you do use it, change your mindset and use it with your first MindBlast — and every MindBlast thereafter when it’s out of cooldown.
- Since you need tier two to get Meditation, I recommend a good hard look at 2 of your points going to martyrdom. Unlike healpriest you are GOING to get hit. Take advantage of that fact. If only it didn’t proc solely on crits…
And then, final recommendation. A spreadsheet. http://linkzmax.googlepages.com/priest_dps.xls . It’s discussed at shadowpriest.com — top sticky in the spellcasting forum.
August 24th, 2007
edit, edit…
Shadowform stacks with INNER FIRE. Not Inner Focus - not that way, anyway.
sheesh.
August 24th, 2007
I played a shadow priest until lvl 59 in vanilla Warcraft, went healbot for 60 raiding, then went back to shadow for BC and haven’t looked back. My PvE strategy is a little different than most of the wisdom you’re getting here, but you’re getting good advice. I just have my own perspective on some things.
First off, while you’re levelling? You can’t go wrong just throwing all your points in shadow. There’s some good efficiency talents in discipline but you don’t NEED them to avoid downtime (at least not once you have your shadowfiend). I’ve always used a fairly standard 14/47 disc/shadow build, but a friend of mine did pure shadow for levelling and I can’t say that either of us had trouble with downtime.
Let me describe how I solo. I don’t use vampiric spells at all. I have the talents, because they are indispensable for group play and you definitely need to take them, but I don’t use them in solo. I pull at max range with mind blast, drop a SW:P while backing up to maintain distance, stop and mind flay until they get close, fear once they get in range, and mind flay to death, perhaps finishing with a wand or SW:D. I’ll almost always drop my enemy before they can lay a finger on me, and that’s also why I typically don’t vamp–I don’t have the time to cast VT, and I don’t need the health from VE. Sometimes I don’t use SW:P at all due to the high mana cost and low efficiency if I’m dropping mobs fast, but I love its fire-and-forget nature. I will use vamps and PW:shields in multimob situations or when fear is impossible/inadvisable. You may not be comfortable with fear, but I really suggest trying to get over that, there’s almost nowhere in outland where it’s dangerous if you pay attention and keep your feared mob slow with mind flay. In the old world that wasn’t as true, but you get a lot of room to work with in Outland. If you don’t like fear, a PW:Shield always protects me for the duration of my fights so I still don’t need to vamp, but it is more mana intensive than fear.
In groups, I vamp. My rotation is: VE, SW:P, VT, SW:D, MB, MF, MF, MB, and after that I play it by ear, working down my priority list: if a vamp is down, recast. If a dot is down, recast. If SW:D is available, cast, if MB is available, cast, and when nothing else is available or needs to be refreshed, MF. If I need to be mana efficient or watch threat, I’ll just keep vamps and dots up, and stick to MF. SW:D also gets ignored when it’s too dangerous.
I don’t PvP.
Talents I have always had in all specs: Spirit tap (5), Imp. SWP (2), Shadow Focus (5), Imp. Psychic Scream (2), Mind Flay (1), Shadow Weaving (5), Silence (1), VE (1), Imp. VE (2), Focused Mind (3), Darkness (5), Shadowform (1), Misery (5), VT (1)
I’m getting the numbers from Wowwiki, but I think that’s 39 points total…you need 41 at minimum so there’s at least 2 more points to spend, and I don’t advocate ever putting less than 47 points in the shadow tree so you have 8 points more at your discretion.
Talents I have never had: Shadow resilience, Imp. Fade
Resilience could be useful for PvPers but I’d have to be a heavy PvPer to bother, and as others have noted, Imp. Fade is completely stupid.
Situational Talents and why you might want them:
Blackout (5): I had this while levelling, and dropped it when I entered Kara. Probably a must for PvP. In solo play, it can give you an extra uninterrupted mind flay opening, and in 5 mans it’s always nice to have a mob stunned rather than hitting someone. But it’s random and thus I don’t find it all that useful.
Shadow Affinity (3): I didn’t have this while levelling, but it’s a must for raiding and highly desirable for grouping. If you play with a good tank or do relatively poor damage (due to gear, whatever) I think it’s safe to skip this for 5 mans.
Imp. Mind Blast (5): You basically decide what you want your spell rotation to be and then put as many points into this as you need to make MB fit properly. It’s almost completely unnecessary for soloing the way I do it, because you only ever cast it as your opener. In groups or raids, you’ll want some points but I can’t see ever recommending more than 4. Maybe for PvP you’d want it maxed.
Shadow reach (2): Had it while levelling, don’t have it anymore and kind of miss it. Extra range is always nice, but even extended the range of mind flay will limit you, so I think this one is expendable.
Shadow Power (5): Didn’t have this while levelling. Your bread and butter spells don’t crit. But I put any leftover points I have into this when I’m raiding. Extra damage is extra damage. But crit should always be a low priority for a shadow priest.
Some more shadow thoughts:
Pump spell damage. You kill things faster, you get more from your vamps, spell damage is your number one goal, and any talent that increases damage is valuable.
I love spirit tap. Even at 70, even in groups, even in 10 mans. I probably get it to proc 30-40% of the time in Kara by paying attention and making opportune strikes with SW:D. On a fight like Curator, I get it off almost every spark, keeping me swimming in mana. And it’s great for solo play. You typically won’t be gearing for spirit so I will readily admit it may not be the most useful talent in the world but for me it is definitely worth it.
I like silence and imp. psychic scream. Silence is great for pulling casters to a safe spot and is rather handy in 5 mans. I even use it in Kara sometimes but I could go without. Since I’m constantly using fear when soloing, improving its cooldown is handy. But you can drop both if they don’t fit your playstyle quite easily.
Discipline tree:
Wand spec (5) is nice while soloing. When you have a good wand it is easy to finish off a mob with it and get the most out of that spirit tap proc. Don’t underestimate wand damage–it can be significant with a good wand.
Unbreakable Will (5): No sir, I don’t like it. I don’t like resisting fears, unless I’m positive everyone else is going to resist them too–being the only unfeared person makes you a target. But I’ll admit resisting silence is golden. And of course for PvP it’s invaluable.
Silent Resolve (5): Doesn’t work on shadow spells, forget about it.
Imp. PW:Fort (2) and Imp. PW:S (3) are not necessary but people will appreciate you having them. Shields are a major part of my non-vamping solo strategy, and a well placed shield can be a life saver in group situations, so I’m for buffing it with this talent.
Martyrdom (2): I abhor all talents that have to do with getting hit. If I’m doing my job right, I’m not getting hit. PvPers obviously will feel differently.
Absolution(3): You won’t be curing diseases in shadowform. You will dispel, but not enough to make this worth it.
Inner Focus (1): Very nice, and if you are going into the Discipline tree, you’re getting this. You’ll be going this far anyways and have points to spend, because the only reason to go into Discipline at all is…
Meditation (3): Seriously, this is the only reason I go into discipline at all, and it is nice. Then again, your gear won’t be heavy on spirit so it may not be as useful as you might think, and is why I have no problems advocating a 61 shadow build. But the difference in mana efficiency IS noticeable.
August 24th, 2007
VT has been discussed above, but anecdotally, it replaced SW: Pain in my usual spell rotation (VT -> MB -> MF x1 or 2 -> MB or Wand to death). It was simply a better fit duration-wise with how long it took me to kill mobs in Outland. About the only time I used SW: Pain was on multi pulls or when I was solo’ing the elites in Nagrand.
August 25th, 2007
If you ever do get interested in Shadow PVP while lvling up:
@ 60 - 10/0/41
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxRMZZEMRzMtRMtVo
@ 70 - 20/0/41 (if paired up with a Lock for Arena)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxgMzhMZZVMGdMtRMdyo
Details:
5/5 Silent Resolve, you nab this not for the threat, but for the chance to resist dispel, including all yours buffs and your debuffs.
2/2 Martyrdom, SPriests are focus fired often as they have very few escape moves and also are a big threat with Dispel/Mass Dispel/Mana Burn.
2/2 Imp. Mana Burn, needed to beat teams that are built to outlast (see Druid/Lock synergy).
2/2 Shadow Resilience, free Resilience (the crit part) against spells.
4/5 Shadow Power, +12% crit on Shadow Word Death, the key spell for burst damage. Excellent when paired with your DOTs, a Lock’s DOTs and Shadowburn.
August 25th, 2007
I was never terribly impressed with VT as I leveled either, but as Lauchis said: “once I got into a group situation, all the caster types were practically falling over themselves with glee at their mana regen.” I found myself being asked repeatedly to please cough up VT whenever my guild grouped (both for random questing and instances), so I hastily put my next talent point there and obediently used it. When I’m running around alone though, I only tend to use it when I’m getting low on mana and send off my shadowfiend to aggro a mob. I’ll toss up VT, pain, mind blast and flay until the sucker is killed, making sure I don’t do it so fast that I kill the sucker before the shadowfiend does. It gives me that extra bit of mana, usually leaving me almost full again. It helps keep me away from downtime.
Pretty much any mana user that you group with (who has a clue what shadow priests are for) will be terribly miffed if you don’t have VT.
Keep in mind though that VT does do damage (495 for me currently), so even if it ends up costing you a small amount of mana, there’s a tiny comfort in that.
I’ve never touched Meditation, but that’s mainly because my +spell hit is teh suck and I need my 5/5 in Shadow Focus. Once I get my hit rating up high enough, I will be looking into Meditation and Martyrdom to see what the fuss is about.
I dropped imp fade, because good eyes and a threat meter is really all you need in a group setting because you’re not supposed to take aggro in the first place. Oh and a halfway decent tank, ofc, but as long as you don’t plan on pugging a lot, that shouldn’t be an issue
Inner Focus is yum. I’m using it for fort renewal whenever it’s needed, and inbetween I use it for Mind Blast or for shield when I’m pulling groups of mobs. These days I’m massacring mobs for Wintersaber Trainer rep, so there’s a lot of no-cost-shielding going on. I also have spirit tap, but again that’s because I’m forever killing things in instances with SW:Death to make it proc. Whenever I group with a guildie for a quest, I also make sure to get the killing blow as often as I can to help with downtime. I’ve never actually tried Blackout though, so I won’t speak too loudly about that.
August 27th, 2007
@Everyone
You guys are so awesome. I feel so much more confident about making talent choices. I need to print out all these comments and glare balefully at a talent calculator.
Thank you!!
August 27th, 2007
Apologies, VT does 715 damage (over 15 seconds). I don’t know what I was doing up there. SORRY!
August 30th, 2007
[...] Ego asked for help in speccing her maybe-not-so-Egotistical Priest of the Shadow persuasion, Kytta [...]
November 29th, 2007
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxMR0hZZVGgdMLohtVo
Go with this…spec at 64…these are the ones I think you absolutely need for shadow priest…spent 6 months tweaking.
Spend other 6 where you like (shadow power, silence, resilience, or in Disipline talents).
However, if you’re not playing solo healing/disp priest still better.