The Egotistical Priest
An irreverent and opinionated discussion of the many classes
in the World of Warcraft gaming universe.
An irreverent and opinionated discussion of the many classes
in the World of Warcraft gaming universe.
Most of us have been there. We have real life friends who play the game. Maybe they picked it up on their own, maybe we pressured them into picking up the game so they could spend time with us. Maybe you didn’t realize they played the game, and both of you have toons on different servers.
Hearts filled with happiness, you transfer a toon, you reroll, you (both of you) do whatever you can so that you can play together. You imagine how much fun it’s going to be, to play with your friends. No more loot whores, no more drama, no more dying on solo quests. Together, you will make an invincible team, and your enemies shall be crushed before your might.
…and then everything goes wrong.
Why? Why does it -always- seem to go wrong? You get along so well in real life, why should the game be any different?
Disgruntled, disappointed, and demoralized, you stop playing together. Sometimes you stop being friends, and sometimes you stop playing the game.
I’ve played WoW for a very long time, and I’ve been in this situation more times than I care to remember. As a result, I’ve had a lot of time to think about why it fails so very often, and also why sometimes, almost miraculously, it works.
There are three elements to finding a good playing buddy. I’m not necessarily talking about guilds here, although the general ideas can be applied on that level as well. Here, I’m talking more about the people you play with. The people you quest with, the people you instance with.
(1) Play Times
Play times are incredibly important. You can love someone forever, but if the two of you are never online at the same time, and for a long enough period to achieve your goals, then it doesn’t matter. The gaming relationship won’t work.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve rolled a new toon to play with a friend, only to log on two days later and find that they’d leveled their character so far past me that there was no way I could catch up. I’ve also rolled a new toon to play with a friend, and they didn’t log on for another week, leaving me standing there, wanting desperately to play, but not certain if they’d log on at all.
My current group of play-companions is fairly stable. We all tend to log on around the same time, and we tend to log off around the same times. Those who are able to log more often will play other characters until the rest of us get home from work and start playing.
There are ways to work around this requirement. You can create a set of toons that you ONLY log on when the other person is online. Both of you have two sets of toons, and if you want to play but the other person isn’t online, you play the other character, easy as that.
If the playtime is drastically different enough, this will become frustrating to both of you and you’ll end up wanting to play the shared characters far more often, and you may even end up with your “alt” characters pushing 70 before the “main” characters reach Stranglethorn.
If you know the person well enough, you can always call each other and find out if the other wants to play, to keep yourself from standing around twiddling your thumbs and wondering if they’re going to log on. That can get annoying, especially if they’re gone because they’re spending time with their family.
You can also schedule a specific time/day where you get on and play with your friends. Everyone (and I do mean everyone) has to be dedicated to this, however. If you’re going to play together, you need to make sure that nobody logs on outside of that time period and completes “just a few” quests. You need to make sure that everyone logs on during the time period - if one person doesn’t make it, they fall behind.
It’s very difficult to play with people who aren’t there, though, and this requirement is a difficult one to work around.
(2) Play Philosophy
Why are you playing the game? Do you dream of Black Temple? Of raiding the hard content, seeing the things that only a fraction of the WoW gaming population may ever see? Or do you play to spend time with your friends? Play to hang out, to help people? Maybe roleplay is your calling, you feel more fulfilled after a chance meeting in Stormwind with your Brown Linen Dress on than an entire evening spent killing gnolls.
You and your friend have to have the same philosophy about this game. The game itself is, much like life, open to be played however the player wants. If you feel a burning need to advance and raid, but your friend wants to spend a half hour trying on dresses from the Auction House, you’re going to run into problems.
The people you play with have to feel the same way about loot and progression as you do. Or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof. I love to instance, and I enjoy raiding. But my friends LOVE raiding. It’s easy enough to slightly modify my desires as I play the game so that we all get to raid together. It would be much more difficult for me to raid if I’d rather just hang out in Shattrath and spend time in guild chat. Small modifications can be made, but any large changes made in play philosophy for the sole purpose of playing with someone else is going to end in regret.
(3) Play Style
Similar to the play philosophy, play style goes deeper. Assuming you have matching play philosophies, your play STYLES can still be drastically different. Maybe you’re a theorycrafter. You’ve got spreadsheets, you’ve done the math, you know exactly what gear you want, and what cast or shot sequence to use in order to maximize your dps…
…if your friend really just wants to hang out, isn’t concerned about what his gear is like, so long as he can complete his quests, what difference does it make to him?
There is no right or wrong in this. But knowing this, it will become increasingly frustrating for BOTH of you, as your styles are so drastically different. It will become a point of contention between you, with neither of you understanding the drive (or lack of it) that the other displays.
Much better when both of you enjoy the same thing. If both of you enjoy theorycrafting, you can share your findings with each other, make suggestions, get help with gear choices. A pack of theorycrafters is a terrifying and awesome thing.
There is Always Hope…
If you have two out of these three, and the third is not too drastically different between you, it’s a simple task to find a compromise and make it work. Just because you don’t 100% agree on all three of these criteria doesn’t mean your group is doomed.
But the closer you agree on play times, play philosophy, and play style, the more harmonious your gaming relationship will be.
…Except When There’s Not
If you and your friends disagree sharply on any of these, or even enough on all three, it’s not going to work.
It does NOT mean that your friendship is doomed, or that you must be incompatible friends. As a matter of fact, if you can identify all three of these early on, you can save your REAL relationship from falling prey to the pitfalls of gaming woes.
You can be friends (very GOOD friends) with people who you cannot play with. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
(Okay, there might be if you find out your friend is a ganking loot-whore, but we’ll assume that the problems stemmed from one of the three mentioned above, rather than accidentally learning what a greedy bastard your friend is.)
Nostalgia
I came from the generation of gamers that played EQ. In that game, I was one of the most active people in guild chat, I was friends with everyone, and I was beloved by all. In this game, I rarely even get to see guild chat fly by. This game is MUCH more engaging on a minute-by-minute basis. In Everquest, you would literally spend hours camped on a single spot with a large group of friends, just hoping that a particular mob would spawn. The downtime to regen mana was MUCH higher, as was the downtime between mob spawns.
I spent a large majority of my time with my arse planted firmly in the turf, which led to a lot of time where I had nothing to do except talk to friends.
In a way it was very nice. I felt like I was much more connected to the PEOPLE there. Here, you cannot be both “doing something” and “being social” at the same time. You are either doing something (questing, instancing, raiding) or you are being social (talking to friends, roleplaying, participating in guild chat).
It’s one of the big reasons Ventrilo is so popular. You can be social and talk, using your voice and ears, while still using your hands, mouse, and keyboard to play the game.
The point of telling you this is…I have friends who’ve joined my guild, and I never get to talk to them. Sometimes I see them log off, and I never even realized they were online. And then we pull another group of naga, and I forget about it again.
This game requires a lot of focus if you’re instancing or raiding (or even doing in-depth questing, or herb-gathering…)
And even if you want to stop and talk to them when they log on…if you’re already in a group, what do you do? Tell them “hey, sorry guys, a friend logged on and I want to spend time with them.” ?
That will only happen twice before you’re not invited to instance again. And they’d be right to not ask you. Your Play Philosophy no longer matches theirs. You’ve prioritized talking to friends over finishing instances, and you’re probably hard to replace in the middle of an instance. Thing is, you’re also right to spend time with your friends. And both of you have the right to be irritated at the fact that the other person doesn’t appreciate what you’re doing enough to follow through.
And you’d both be wrong, and you’d both be right.
Summary
Playing just to play with friends fails, and often spectacularly.
The reason generally lies in the three criteria listed above. To have a successful play group, you need to find people that have the same (or nearly the same) play times, philosophy, and style as you do.
And unfortunately, there is no addon to list those out for you. They aren’t easy to find, but there are no wrong answers to the questions. There are simply different ones. Play the game and do what makes YOU happy. I can’t tell you how to find other people that feel the same way, but I can tell you that playing the game using someone else’s answers to those three criteria will make you miserable.
Just because you cannot play with them doesn’t mean you can’t be friends with them. Even friends with a different play style or play times make great conversation about the game when you meet to have some coffee or invite them over for dinner. Even a phone call, for those who live too far away for casual meeting, can provide a platform to continue a friendship, and it’s always fun to have the conversation turn to a game that you both love, even if you can’t play together.
Realizing that you and your friends aren’t compatible in-game isn’t the end of the world, or even of your friendship.
But after you attempt to make it work, and fail, and attempt, and fail, and attempt, and fail…there comes a point where you have to stop bashing your head into the wall repeatedly, and reach out to open the door. There are some battles you not only cannot win, you shouldn’t fight.
November 20th, 2007
Awesome post. And so true.
I have 3 younger brothers who all game. So often we will see a new game and say “ALRIGHT TMNT MMORPG we’ll each be one turtle and we’ll be awesome”. Presuming we get past the “everyone needs to like the same game to play it together” hurdle the following starts:
Brother1) Uhm guys I have a wife and child I can’t play tonight.
Brother2) Wait what?! you said you were going to play with us we were going to kill [x].
Brother3) No we weren’t! You know that fishing is the most important thing to me! We were going to level our tradeskills and farm components!
Brother4) Bah why bother? I’m already at endgame raiding with an elite guild why aren’t you guys my level?
Yeah.
Fortunately my wife and I share playstyles enough to play WoW together and to only occasionally help out Brother 2 and 4. Brother 3 plays ffxi because wow is “too cartoony”.
Anyways.
Insightful article.
mfd.
November 20th, 2007
Great blog today ego! I have the problem that my Brother in law and my best friend, both play - but both played before I started and are on different servers and in giulds with their friends too. So I’m torn between two realms, lol. My BiL plays occassionally, and we’ve got toons at similar levels so we can play together when we’re able. Usually he texts me when he’s available (usually on the weekends) and we’ll play or not depending on family obligations.
My friend was level 70 and getting ready for endgame content before I even started playing. I started playing a priest - bad call. I have since rolled a Hunter, found James Leveling Guide, and it’s a mad dash to get to 70 so I can finally play with him. Luckily, both of these guys share my playing style and philoshophy and my schedule is flexible enough to play with them both - as soon as I get to 70 for one, and whenever we’re both available for the other.
In the meantime I solo, and curse the NElf gankers.
November 20th, 2007
^^ I hear you on this, Ego. My best friend started playing WoW because of me… and boy, did we get into a lot of problems early on because of all three that you listed up there. Me being on the westcoast and her on the east coast didn’t help matters to begin with. To make things even worse, I’m a hardcore raider and theory crafter at heart. While I might not go so far as the spreadsheets, I know my (raiding) class inside out. I know the spell rotations, the gear requirements. She’s more the loose and easy, anything goes casual gamer. She’s specced her priest in so many different ways, some of which make me twitch. Uncontrollably. Committing 4 nights a week to wipe repeatedly on one boss is alien to her. Consequently, we got into a ton of trouble.
Nowadays, we’ve at least got a system down. She’s always the first person I greet when I log in game, even if our toons never play with each other. We have our own private chat channel that we share with other friends, and it’s good for us to keep in touch there. She bugs me while I’m in raid, and doesn’t expect me to reply immediately if I’m on a boss fight, and I bug her back when we’re sitting around waiting for the shaman who DCed to connect back. We have alts that we occasionally play together. I’ll run her through lowbie instances on my priest, she’ll take mine through on hers. It’s worked out in the end, because of all the times we’d spend arguing about playstyle with each other and just really valuing our friendship over in game differences.
=) I think it helps, too, that I don’t pressure her to raid, and she doesn’t pressure me to follow her play style. The acceptance and tolerance of how the other person plays is very important, I think.
November 20th, 2007
Nice post.
When I started, we had a group (of 7) from work that all started together, and levelled together. Scheduling things was super easy, because we could all meet face-to-face at work, and there were no time zone differences or anything like that to deal with.
If someone wanted to play more, they had a second character to solo-level.
That worked basically all the way up to ZG, where we started doing the “guild merge” routine and things like that. Nowadays, we’ve all “scattered to the winds” due to different goals and play-time allowances and such, in several different guilds, but we’re still close and try to organize “old memories” 5-man runs and such.
One of my old managers just started up similarly to how we did (group of his old co-workers/friends). They are scattered around the country, so they have time zone issues and whatnot, but it seems to be working out well for them. It’s kind of refreshing to keep track of their progress - like seeing the game from a fresh perspective. I kept up with them with one of my alts for a while, was good fun.
November 21st, 2007
My real life friends from college found WOW and decided we should have fun once again since Diablo. We did but then while my friends wife play with them, my wife don’t like the 3D control and don’t want to play. Eventually my play time conflicts with our family time etc and wife starts to argo like Onyxia.
I went so far as wrote a bot to help leveling and fishing, and things got better. Now I am 70 and needs better stuff, PVP 2 hour each night is still too much for her. So now I am doing 1 hours each on Tuesday/Thursday, and raid with my friends every other week on weekends depend on time.
November 21st, 2007
Heh. You think playing with your friends can be difficult? Try playing with your kids. My son wants to do one thing only; kill other players. As fast and as often as possible. One of my daughters likes making new characters, choosing their appearance, getting to level 2, and then deleting them. My other daughter likes doing quests, but only if she’s already done them many times before, knows exactly what to do, and has a matching outfit.
It’s me who’s the bloody hero. I try to play with all of them. However, when I play with my daughters, my son has to be banned from the room, otherwise tears are guaranteed to result. He just won’t shut up. “No, you’re doing it wrong, blah blah blah blah, why don’t you wear that mail shirt, who cares if it matches, blah blah, you’re so stupid, I am not, you are, you are you are you are, shut up, I hate you DAD Kate hit me, DAD, she hit me again….” Thump, whack, thump. Tears. Every time.
When I play with my son, it’s the same. He won’t shut up. But this time I end up whacking him first. “What? You just called me an idiot loser, just because my hunter couldn’t kill a holy priest a few levels lower? You little bugger.” Whack. Thump. Bash. Child abuse.
Dad stops playing and goes to sulk.
November 27th, 2007
Lol nice one “Sweet Petal”… dont think I could handle playing a MMO with kids (Not that I have any yet). But I play with a few Friends and My Bro. Playing with my bro is easy… Occasional PVP and when Im raiding he is sometimes invited. Playing with friends is soooo much harder…
There was 4 of us and we were in the same guild. 3 of us got to 60 around 2 months before TBC. That went fine, we all raided when we could and the other one quit at 48 because he went on a holiday and then just didnt play for a while. Then TBC and we all got to 70. (including 4th friend) now when we raided 10 man content, you cant take 2 rogues and a enhancement shammy… So I got pissed and left and a friend with me leaving the others in the guild. Guild eventually broke up and now they are in different guilds… We are less friendly in RL now because of it and it sux. But I still talk to them and someday it will be all good again. Now the shammy is Resto and me and the other rogue both have Holy Priests at 70 lol.
November 27th, 2007
Wow - so correct about the differences between this game and EverQuest.
I was a 75 raiding cleric there, and had played the game for 5yrs.before I left and came to WoW (my kids made me do it!) - to say the least, it was quite a culture shock.
On top of EverQuest being so much more *socially complex and involved* I came from a pvp server, and there, you learn to really depend on friends and guild-mates to survive (as a not-so-squishy cleric, I had decent survivability). I will never love WoW, or have the friends/guildmates that I made in EverQuest - in many was is was so much damm harder to get your levels, gear, *epics* but maybe because that was so…..it all meant a 100x more to me than a full set of epics do in this game.
Keep up the nice work- love reading your blog.