Comments on: Guest post: The Core http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/ A World of Warcraft Blog Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:24:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: The Egotistical Priest : A World of Warcraft Blog : » Blog Archive » The Core, Continued http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3522 The Egotistical Priest : A World of Warcraft Blog : » Blog Archive » The Core, Continued Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:23:58 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3522 [...] loved Hildi’s not-so-anonymous guest post so much that I let it take the Tuesday slot instead of making it wait for the next available day - [...] [...] loved Hildi’s not-so-anonymous guest post so much that I let it take the Tuesday slot instead of making it wait for the next available day - [...]

]]> By: Eldr http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3506 Eldr Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:49:31 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3506 Thanks, I'm very proud! We had three druids, so I didn't get to totally dominate v.v I did make first druid once though, with my puny 1765 +heal and no haste! /flex I'm especially proud of this (and yes, telling everyone who'll listen) because I have <6days played at 70 on this toon. And yeah I was assigned to MT v.v I'm currently playing my warlock as main, priest for Gertie and now druid for Council XD Alts FTW! Thanks, I’m very proud!
We had three druids, so I didn’t get to totally dominate v.v
I did make first druid once though, with my puny 1765 +heal and no haste! /flex
I’m especially proud of this (and yes, telling everyone who’ll listen) because I have <6days played at 70 on this toon.
And yeah I was assigned to MT v.v

I’m currently playing my warlock as main, priest for Gertie and now druid for Council XD
Alts FTW!

]]> By: Overcast http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3505 Overcast Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:37:11 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3505 Oh wow, great post and so very true. Just last week, I got a guild invite spam or 5 - declined. Then I get two or three whispers... It's worse on my unguilded 45 Warrior than on my 33 Priest, but sheesh. Why? I'm not sure, but I got annoyed with it. After turning some fat profit in the Auction House, I figured - what the heck, I went and made a guild, bought a bank tab, made a Tabard for kicks, etc, etc.. I really did this as a 'shield' vs. Invite Spams, Begging to Sign Charters (hey, I paid people to sign mine~~) and the like. I invited my wife's toon and a RL friend, of course. After which my RL friend says - "hey, why'd you kick all those people who signed the charter?" I told him I made it clear when I was 'advertising' that I was just making a small guild for us and was only asking for "signature service" for the money and there was no obligation - actually, no chance of staying in - but hey, everyone knew it when they signed - so that's far. But then he goes - ok, well when we gonna invite people? We can just invite whoever and see who stays? I was like... OMG NO, that's why I made a guild of my own - to escape from horrid beggars and such in these other guilds. I wasn't inviting ANYONE else. Although, the thought has crossed my mind about actually trying to form a guild... But if I decide to... my plan was first to assemble a 'core' small group of players and let others ask to join. I hate spamming, I don't want just anyone. Ehhh - thanks for putting kinda what we all had 'felt' into a clear writeup :) Most helpful. Oh wow, great post and so very true.

Just last week, I got a guild invite spam or 5 - declined. Then I get two or three whispers… It’s worse on my unguilded 45 Warrior than on my 33 Priest, but sheesh.

Why? I’m not sure, but I got annoyed with it. After turning some fat profit in the Auction House, I figured - what the heck, I went and made a guild, bought a bank tab, made a Tabard for kicks, etc, etc.. I really did this as a ’shield’ vs. Invite Spams, Begging to Sign Charters (hey, I paid people to sign mine~~) and the like.

I invited my wife’s toon and a RL friend, of course. After which my RL friend says - “hey, why’d you kick all those people who signed the charter?” I told him I made it clear when I was ‘advertising’ that I was just making a small guild for us and was only asking for “signature service” for the money and there was no obligation - actually, no chance of staying in - but hey, everyone knew it when they signed - so that’s far.

But then he goes - ok, well when we gonna invite people? We can just invite whoever and see who stays? I was like… OMG NO, that’s why I made a guild of my own - to escape from horrid beggars and such in these other guilds. I wasn’t inviting ANYONE else.

Although, the thought has crossed my mind about actually trying to form a guild… But if I decide to… my plan was first to assemble a ‘core’ small group of players and let others ask to join. I hate spamming, I don’t want just anyone.

Ehhh - thanks for putting kinda what we all had ‘felt’ into a clear writeup :) Most helpful.

]]> By: Vonya http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3501 Vonya Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:18:54 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3501 <span class="gold">@EgoCrew</span> This is just a test of the emergency commenting system. I repeat. This is just a test. <strong>test</strong> <span class="kwane">also test</span> @EgoCrew
This is just a test of the emergency commenting system. I repeat. This is just a test.
test
also test

]]> By: Vendric http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3496 Vendric Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:09:25 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3496 A good guild leader will keep her guild intact, challenged, and aligned to their central principals without regard to sub-groups. A good leader is never a respecter of persons. There will usually be an amount of people that are willing to put levels of effort into a game that is on par with mid-range fortune 500 salaries. These people should be appreciated and valued. They do represent the leading edge in what can be accomplished under the banner of your guild. They will be the first people to get bored or get excited. However, I fear that to even define them with a term as 'our core' does a dis-service to everyone else in the family. It also sows the seeds for an us-them mentality that will eventually lead to the break-up described in the post. The post is great, and captures an aspect that is known but untangeable. I just fear that once you name it, you destroy it. ~V Einstein was here. Bohr was here. Heisenberg may have been here. <--- kinda like that. A good guild leader will keep her guild intact, challenged, and aligned to their central principals without regard to sub-groups. A good leader is never a respecter of persons. There will usually be an amount of people that are willing to put levels of effort into a game that is on par with mid-range fortune 500 salaries. These people should be appreciated and valued. They do represent the leading edge in what can be accomplished under the banner of your guild. They will be the first people to get bored or get excited. However, I fear that to even define them with a term as ‘our core’ does a dis-service to everyone else in the family. It also sows the seeds for an us-them mentality that will eventually lead to the break-up described in the post. The post is great, and captures an aspect that is known but untangeable. I just fear that once you name it, you destroy it.

~V

Einstein was here.
Bohr was here.
Heisenberg may have been here. <— kinda like that.

]]> By: Hildi http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3494 Hildi Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:18:44 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3494 Ha. Actually, I didn't know it was supposed to be anonymous, so I really wasn't trying. @ygg There is only 1 core. I sort of wrote that from the raiding guild perspective, but it still exists in any other one, social or whatever. What you are describing are typical social factions that arise in any social situation. They are different. You are right in saying sometimes you don't know you are part of it, but the same can be said about people who think they are but they really aren't! Your raid leader and officers will likely know exactly who makes up that core. Eldr is also correct in saying it is ok to not be a part of it. Typically it sort of just happens, it is nothing you can force, really. Really the designation shouldn't be called out or put down on paper either, or you will run into problems. About the only thing you can say is that you can't contain it, you can only hope to keep it intact and in the same direction. @Eldr Grats on council progress :) That is truly harder than most of Illidan. The best thing for you right now tho, is that you get to taunt all the other healers with the meters :) hehe You should be dominating, unless they have you doing something other than rollng lb's on the 4 tanks....in which case I say..GL! :) Ha. Actually, I didn’t know it was supposed to be anonymous, so I really wasn’t trying.

@ygg
There is only 1 core. I sort of wrote that from the raiding guild perspective, but it still exists in any other one, social or whatever. What you are describing are typical social factions that arise in any social situation. They are different. You are right in saying sometimes you don’t know you are part of it, but the same can be said about people who think they are but they really aren’t! Your raid leader and officers will likely know exactly who makes up that core.
Eldr is also correct in saying it is ok to not be a part of it. Typically it sort of just happens, it is nothing you can force, really. Really the designation shouldn’t be called out or put down on paper either, or you will run into problems. About the only thing you can say is that you can’t contain it, you can only hope to keep it intact and in the same direction.

@Eldr
Grats on council progress :) That is truly harder than most of Illidan. The best thing for you right now tho, is that you get to taunt all the other healers with the meters :) hehe You should be dominating, unless they have you doing something other than rollng lb’s on the 4 tanks….in which case I say..GL! :)

]]> By: Kwane http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3493 Kwane Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:25:42 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3493 <span class="kwane">@Eldr</span> He outed himself, I only added the stuff before the title and that little bit between the **’s *Lobs blame back to Hildi….point Kwane!* … *And the crowd goes wild!* @Eldr
He outed himself, I only added the stuff before the title and that little bit between the **’s

*Lobs blame back to Hildi….point Kwane!*

…

*And the crowd goes wild!*

]]> By: Eldr http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3490 Eldr Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:17:50 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3490 Yeah you totally blew the whole anon thing Kwane. *mocks* @Hildi: Best of luck in your new guild Hildi, sounds a lot healthier. You need tree? don't tempt me... Spent tonight LBing at council, our first real night on them - 3% wipe Can't decide whether to yay or cry >.< re: the article, QFT. I've watched a couple of guilds explode, from the inside, and this is exactly the pattern. Ultimately guilds are built on trust and a solid core inspires everyone else to stick around and keep trying. A fractured core leads to mistrust, miscommunication and a fast split. Some further reflections... If you aren't in the core, that's okay. Guilds need fringe too. Also, it's pretty much impossible to become core when everything is okay. When things start going wrong, that's the time to step up to the plate. Even if all you can provide is a positive attitude, or documentation or whatever. It all has to get done by someone and just the effort is noticed. Otoh, when the time comes, the core must step away. It's a shame when a previously enthusiastic and committed member doesn't recognise their own burnout, and sours the relationships which took so long to build. @Ygg: to me a core is more than a clique. Generally everyone else in the guild or comm is there because they want to hang out with one or more of the core. They're the Kevin Bacons that unite everyone. Often new members come from friends, or friends of friends, of core members. In contrast, cliques are exclusive - you're in or out and those who are in, don't socialise with those who are out. Yeah you totally blew the whole anon thing Kwane. *mocks*

@Hildi: Best of luck in your new guild Hildi, sounds a lot healthier.
You need tree? don’t tempt me…
Spent tonight LBing at council, our first real night on them - 3% wipe
Can’t decide whether to yay or cry >.<

re: the article, QFT. I’ve watched a couple of guilds explode, from the inside, and this is exactly the pattern. Ultimately guilds are built on trust and a solid core inspires everyone else to stick around and keep trying. A fractured core leads to mistrust, miscommunication and a fast split.

Some further reflections…
If you aren’t in the core, that’s okay. Guilds need fringe too. Also, it’s pretty much impossible to become core when everything is okay.
When things start going wrong, that’s the time to step up to the plate. Even if all you can provide is a positive attitude, or documentation or whatever. It all has to get done by someone and just the effort is noticed.

Otoh, when the time comes, the core must step away. It’s a shame when a previously enthusiastic and committed member doesn’t recognise their own burnout, and sours the relationships which took so long to build.

@Ygg: to me a core is more than a clique. Generally everyone else in the guild or comm is there because they want to hang out with one or more of the core. They’re the Kevin Bacons that unite everyone. Often new members come from friends, or friends of friends, of core members.
In contrast, cliques are exclusive - you’re in or out and those who are in, don’t socialise with those who are out.

]]> By: Gauntlet http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3489 Gauntlet Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:35:25 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3489 quick side-note: Until the line '“Hildi…wth is the Core then?”, you ask.', I had no idea *who* the guest poster was. quick side-note: Until the line ‘“Hildi…wth is the Core then?”, you ask.’, I had no idea *who* the guest poster was.

]]> By: Yggdrasil http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/guest-post-the-core/comment-page-1/#comment-3488 Yggdrasil Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:11:39 +0000 http://egotisticalpriest.com/?p=332#comment-3488 Its always odd to me, in that I think a lot of times he people in the Core, don't know it. I know I was once in the Core of a guild, but I couldn't see it myself until later, after I divorced myself from the guild. I think I have been in the Core of many a guild, now that I think of it in this light, though it seems I am never aware of it. I have a tendency to jump in with both feet, but then later begin to have buyer's remorse. I think in social/leveling guilds, especially those with different players playing at different times of day, there can often be more than 1 Core, particularly as people filter away to raid. I always referred to them as cliques, often more defined by their level and progression and play time than by social animosity or preferences. Its always odd to me, in that I think a lot of times he people in the Core, don’t know it. I know I was once in the Core of a guild, but I couldn’t see it myself until later, after I divorced myself from the guild. I think I have been in the Core of many a guild, now that I think of it in this light, though it seems I am never aware of it. I have a tendency to jump in with both feet, but then later begin to have buyer’s remorse. I think in social/leveling guilds, especially those with different players playing at different times of day, there can often be more than 1 Core, particularly as people filter away to raid. I always referred to them as cliques, often more defined by their level and progression and play time than by social animosity or preferences.

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