The Egotistical Priest
An irreverent and opinionated discussion of the many classes
in the World of Warcraft gaming universe.
Lessons from that first PuG
by Hannelore
The exciting part about running through a dungeon with a bunch of scrubs is that you can’t go through it in a daze. You might come OUT in a daze, but going in, you have to be on your toes and ready for anything. That’s one difference between me and miss “Yes they cut glass”. She can sip her filtered draenic water (water, right), and twiddle her fingers. I have to chug back my MGD as fast as I can, or I won’t get to pick up any goodies off the corpses before my so-called-compatriots are running down that hallway.
It also means each dungeon crawl is a learning experience.
I told you I wouldn’t go off and rant and rave about horrible events and woe-is-me, everyone-is-stupid. Well last week turned into that anyway, it seemed. I lost track of things. IT HAPPENS. Nevertheless, I want to share with you what I learned from it.
First thing, as a random crew of miscreants, there’s a lot of psychology involved. Not really in-depth stuff; we’re talking adventurers that are accustomed to leaping off of cliffs, face planting, and then charging into a herd of bovine that have stopped chewing cud long enough to stare at the humanoid meteor. No, I’m talking about the psychology involved in such things as making sure you’re on your way to the summoning stone the moment you know you have a full group. If all five of you sit around and wait to get summoned, it won’t take long for at least one person to decide wellfugthat and go do something else.
AS MUCH AS YOU MAY WANT THIS, it isn’t conducive to getting through that dungeon. So head to the stone, be ready to summon, and keep the useless complaints to a minimum. If it were a guildy, or a friend, maybe they would learn from your reminders and not do it next time. But these random jokers expect to never see your pouting face again, so they’re going to blow you off as you warn them about being flagged, about just sitting in a major city playing on the auctions until summoned, or about forgetting to repair. Even if they do all three at once.
And make sure you don’t do those things. That’s just rude.
When the battle actually starts, take a moment to watch who does what, and get a feel for people’s tactics. Last week’s story had that uppity younger hunter who liked to throw everything he had at the monsters, and then play dead so they went away. After the first time that happened, I knew not to even bother healing him until after he fell over, that way the monsters didn’t turn the stink eye on me. Mages tend to do this a lot, too, but without the added bonus of being able to hear their deathscream every time. They just morph into popsicle form, and – unless they’re the last one’s standing – will watch from their icy prison as the monsters run off to the next poor sap. So if I know that Mr Freeze has his popsicle available, I may hesitate to heal him when he does that super-fireball plus fireball plus arcane explosion combo.
And if they, then, do not use their play-dead or popsicle thingy? Fool proof response right here, write it down.
“I thought you knew what you were doing.”
Alright, so. We’ve got screaming, sobbing, and suicide. What else.
Oh right! As you saw in a lot of the comments, healers actually have a saving grace when things go terribly awry. We’re so used to focusing on the health of our little play-pen-pals, we’re often the first to know when things go suddenly south. We may not even see exactly where their corpses are currently laying, prone and bloody with wolves leering over them, but we’ll know they are quite dead via our connection to the whatsits that lets us know if they’re dead.
That’s when you can decide if it’s worth tracking them down and fixing them up, or put on the happyface because of the stuff you’ve picked up, declare the evening a success, and hearthstone home.
After all, it’s not an adventure unless somebody dies!
…What do you mean it’s not Monday?
August 12th, 2008
“I thought you knew what you were doing.”
Excellent. I shall remember this one.
August 12th, 2008
@ Ratshag
“You looked like you were having so much fun!” is another good one, but not suggested if they happen to be the group leader. Sadface. But yay for a free teleport back to the inn, right? Right?
August 12th, 2008
“But these random jokers expect to never see your pouting face again, so they’re going to blow you off as you warn them about being flagged, about just sitting in a major city playing on the auctions until summoned, or about forgetting to repair. Even if they do all three at once.”
LOL! Isn’t that the truth. After being a long term EQ player, I was astounded at how lazy the summon stones made people - half the group just sits there and doesn’t even beg for summons.
But then I think - someone’s gotta buy the over priced junk I put up on the AH - cause lord knows - it’s not those people posting it, they are too lazy to leave the city.
It reminds me of the lowbie instance I ran - on my druid healer… This level 14 Paladin, with all of 450 hit points (I think my druid had 800 or so and was a couple levels higher) goes CHARGING into the place, like she’s on a 25 man raid clearing grey trash… Needless to say the healing was problematic. Eventually after she dies 4 times (keeping in mind NO ONE ELSE in the group died at all - just her) she finally complains about my healing and tells me to “L2Play” - at that point, I did in fact learn something about PUG’s - when to disband and hearth out
August 12th, 2008
@ Overcast
Ouch. Those do sting. You have to wonder which ’side’ the other people in the group fall on. Do they come away thinking you’re a poor healer, or do they put that waif on a hit list for covert erradication?
August 12th, 2008
“After all, it’s not an adventure unless somebody dies!”
We finally agree on something.
Of course, I’m usually the one making people die, but, you know, whatever works for you.
August 12th, 2008
@ Khol
Gack! Who let you back in? Dratted lockpickers…
August 12th, 2008
@ Overcast
Comments like those are like a challenge to me….a challenge to make sure that person dies every*single*pull.
That paladin would have had a very large repair bill had I been in that group
But I’m a nice guy.
Really
/back from vacation. phear me
August 12th, 2008
Back @ Hannelore:
I wondered that too - but I was confident in my abilities. Judging by the emote another play did at that point (I forget which to be honest) it kinda had me smirk a bit thinking I wasn’t the only one who noticed that.
But seriously - a question. As for my WoW experience thus far; it’s been 100% NEWB! I haven’t leveled past 45 - and it’s by choice. It’s a combination of making sure I picked my path right (class, server, faction, etc - BE Priest FTW
) and postponing ‘burn-out’….
Ok, I’m an old EQ player - played that stinkin’ time sink for 5 years. In that game, when doing ‘dungeon’ content - the pulls, typically were cautious and calculated types of pulls. In this manner, I have trio-ed Uldaman with My Warrior , My friend’s Shammy, and Wife’s Priest around level 42ish- did the whole thing, zero deaths. To be honest; I can’t say if that’s good or bad or what.
But from what I’ve seen *in general* a lot of people just go rampaging in. Now I’m playing a Priest and my Wife’s playing a Rogue - we may have to wait just a bit, but I suspect with Sap a other tools, we can duo instances just fine.
Is that what’s typical in WoW all the way or just lowbie newbness?
I understand that type of play when your group out classes the instance (Lot of DPS, Brickwall of a Tank, etc) but if your group is ‘just right’ for an instance - is that typical?
Thing is - after that instance, I almost began to doubt myself. But then - my Wife’s Pally (who was on that same instance) and my Druid, duo-ed Deadmines all the way to VanCleef, although we did have problems with him. Same toons, right after this fiasco - albeit; it took longer.
August 12th, 2008
@ Overcast
Whenever you have at least a tryptich of people who are on good terms with each other, are used to communicating, and know something of how each other thinks - you’re going to knock the snot out of dungeons. It’s like the places were built with the intention of dealing with smacktards that constantly forget they’re part of a team and wind up just soloing beside each other all the way through. The big bad monsters are thusly accomodating the lowest common denominator.
Which suits me just fine, as I’m usually grouped up with four of the lowest common denominators.
For what you can expect with a well-toned-group, even if you’re under leveled or under geared, or under-manned (new word! I claim it!), then you should talk to Miss “Does my hoof look infected to you?” over there.
August 12th, 2008
Back @ Hannelore
Thanks - I guess it just confirms my suspicion that there’s a bit of both around - ehh, guess that should have been obvious to me anyway.
I do see your points though - it’s best to be the ‘non’ lowest common denominator - thus; there will be ‘cannon fodder’ between me and the monster!
August 12th, 2008
@ Overcast
This might be odd…but what EQ server and what was your clerics name? O.o
August 12th, 2008
Cazic-Thule - High Elf named Queaden.
August 12th, 2008
@ Hanna (:P)
I’m like Elvis, I’m everywhere.
August 13th, 2008
I actually find the silence less irritating than the guy who says “Can I haz summons?” as soon as they join the group, regardless of anyone’s actual distance from the dungeon in question, and regardless of whether or not a full group is yet present.
@ Overcast- You can pretty much do as you like in instances up until Razorfen Kraul, and perhaps even Scarlet Monastery, and have relatively few problems. The mobs just don’t hit all that hard, the bosses tend to be fairly simple, with a couple of noteworthy exceptions, and most groups tend to end up with at least 1 guy who out levels the instance, making everything in the dungeon pretty trivial. But, if you want to 2 man stuff, you’re actually a tad better off with a druid/rogue combo, this way you can stealth past the majority of the trash, saving a boatload of time. Even then 2 manning anything at the appropriate level of play is going to be long and difficult, and you’re going to die…a lot. Really the “Brick wall” guy just gets more and more necessary as you get higher in level. It’s hard to find good tanks. There really is a very noticeable skill difference between a bad tank, a mediocre tank, and a good tank, and it will become readily apparent to you as a healer, since only 1 of those will consistently keep you alive, as long as you keep them alive. Find 1, and stick to them like glue. Pull them in on every run you can. You’ll find your life gets a lot simpler in the long run.
August 13th, 2008
@Yggdrasil
You know - I did try that! After doing a bit of research, reading opinions and all - the druid was the very most highly recommended person to duo with a Rogue - for lots of reasons. But it seems, the Druid just isn’t for me. I loved the HoT’s, and the DPS spells were decent too, shape-shifting was just loaded with versatility, but what makes them so versatile also is what makes them not appeal to me.
From my perspective - I seen it as a limitation. I couldn’t heal in those forms - sure I could go back to my native form and heal, but then I was left with CC that didn’t work indoors, no way to ditch even a single point of threat, and well - waiting on HoT’s to actually heal. Of course, I could have went with a Feral Spec, and just played the Tank, but in all seriousness with having a 43 Warrior already, if I’m gonna tank….. I’m gonna do it with razor sharp edges or heavy blunt objects – or maybe both!
To some the versatility is fantastic, nothing can beat it - to others, it seems there’s a lack of ’specialization’ overall. Druid is a fantastic class - for others
Fast forward to two-manning of instances. True enough - we do die a bit; with a combination such as ours - doing it at the appropriate level - well, isn’t really viable for the most part. But on the flip side of this - my desire to play the Priest should bring us a lot of ‘pull’ in getting into groups. Actually, we can look for a tank and more DPS and we’re all set.
There’s a dark-foreboding flip side to this as well. The possibility remains when we hit the low 40’s, I may in fact don the Green Skin of the Orc once again, pick up my two-hander and tank - but as an Arms/Prot Spec. The further he goes the more I lean towards Protection to be honest. But in a number of cases, he does pretty well with this hybrid spec. While I do like the Priest class immensely, the need for Warriors along with the fact that I do like him about as much as the priest, really may come into play.
Versatility is great for some - but others prefer to excel at a single facet of the various abilities in WoW. I guess I’m the person who plays a ‘focused’ class a bit better than a versatile class.
And even from my current perspective, I see the need for good tanks. I guess my question at that point has been – can I be a good tank? I’m willing to go Protection. I can keep Aggro ok, groups aren’t that big of an issue for me – sadistically enough, I enjoy fighting the groups of mobs over a single target. As I have my targeting keys mapped to the two buttons on the side of my mouse, I’m very quick with target ‘tabbing’, annoy them all a little, hit them with some kinda Area-Effect ability (cleave, Thunderclap, depends on stance at the time) and go to town, not necessarily in the order
Just last night as we were playing – my wife said to me, “you outta really stick with that tank, they seem to be needed and I bet we could find healers or find instances that don’t need healing (level vs. Difficulty of course there) easier than we can find good tanks”.
hmmm - don’t start appealing to my logic woman!!! lol
A dose of reality? Perhaps. In just a logical sense – considering the game overall and such – personal insterests aside, two-man viability aside, and personal desire aside (because I REALLY do like these two classes) which one would serve best in the long run?
The tank, huh? Just based on overall server need?
Yeah, yeah, yeah - I know - I should just play the class I like the most
- But really on the same note, I’d like to be one of those ‘good tanks’. I worry about being a miserable failure though!! lol
August 13th, 2008
@Overcast
Tanking can be some of the most fun one can find in the game, but it takes the right mindset, the right preparation and the right group members (that last one is my own preference) to make it fun. I recommend following this link and starting from oldest to newest post and reading up.
Short history on that link. Aensu, the author of those posts, has tanked every instance in oldworld wow as a warrior with but a priest and rogue at his back, generally starting each instance when mobs were orange to us. It was great fun.
Also, in reference to your response to “Silly Priest, Totem are for Shaman”, it has been my experience that those players that brought knowledge from EQ to WoW had an advantage of a sort over those that did not.
August 13th, 2008
@Kwane and others..
It’s just that you Priest want to see sadistic people who love tanking isn’t it?
Seriously though - in spite of game mechanics; from a RP and Fun standpoint, the Warrior has always been the character I am the most fond of, really. I will certainly read those posts. I find this blog to be one of the best I have yet to run into.
And I think - well, EQ was just a really ‘manual’ type of game, I guess. It seemed to be designed from the ground up - at least the ‘old school’ game anyway, to completely necessitate grouping, from level 15 on. Solo was near impossible for many classes (and crazy EZ-Mode for others).
So really - they idea that at a point groups become necessary really helps to make it a good game. WoW seems to be a healthy mix of the two. EQ did fall short in Solo ability and horribly, woefully short in the PvP aspect - that was just painful.
Thanks for the helpful responses, I’ll lurk around this place regardless of the path I take. If that’s good or bad? I can’t say
August 14th, 2008
@ Overcast- 1 or 2 more things, and I’ll shut it. IF you decide to don the green skin again (and are wanting to use him as a tank), I would recommend going 12/5/44, or something similar (begin by spending the points in Arms and Fury, THEN the points in Protection, since you are leveling).
Good points- Anger Management, Deflection, and Improved Heroic Strike all make your toon much more enjoyable to play solo (because you can kill stuff before you die of old age), and all of them are helpful in tanking as well. Improved Thunderclap is a key talent in any tanking build. Cruelty is a key talent in any build, and once again, makes your solo career much less painful. (As a side bonus, it is far easier to get the shiniest gear when you aren’t “just another DPS”, so this too makes your soloing more bearable.)
Bad points- There really aren’t any until you start doing progression raids, as far as tanking goes. Soloing is still going to go relatively slow compared to a pure DPS build.
To be perfectly frank, tanking is probably the single most exciting aspect of this game (at least in terms of PvE), healing coming in a very close second (granted, there are many times when that switches), most likely because they are the 2 most demanding aspects of gameplay for WoW. The tank or healer has a bad day, or comes undergeared or underprepared to an instance, the whole group dies, but not so much the DPS players, at least until you start raiding. This is all my opinion of course.
Of course we want to see someone who loves tanking! Everyone loves enthusiastic tanks!
Good luck!
August 14th, 2008
Back @ Yggdrasil
I can’t live without Improved Thunderclap - it’s just way too useful. I do not have Cruelty, but I can see why - I figured it would be a good spot for a few points too. I did go arms at first and later added protection. Well, heck - think I’ve re-specced him 4 times or so already.
One thing I was thinking…. I’ll be duo-ing with a Rogue the vast majority of the time, well - the majority of the time outside of any grouping we may do. This may actually pan out to where a Protection Spec is the best bet. I take the best beating the mobs can dish out, while the Rogue finds out how well various mobs blend
I’ve been reading up a lot on the general tanking Theory craft and Aensu’s blogs were phenomenally fantastic. The Evilempire guides actually were written in a way that I think I’m actually on to all this Theorycraft on Uncrushable/Uncrittable, etc. I figure you can never start too early. So what if I can’t hit any of those specific numbers, constantly learning towards them will be a good habit to form.
Likewise, I figured if I was going to play the Warrior as protection (on occasion, at least) to get a feel for it. I figure it’s the most ‘unfun’ spec/stance to play, so figured I better like it…